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The Third Way

This topic contains 230 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of jens jens > 7 days ago.

Discussions Politics Today The Third Way

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  • #1700001
    Profile photo of criticcritic
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    Member since: June 6, 2011
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    critic

    Let us focus on the pros and cons on the most agreeable ways of achieving that – and not waste time on debatable legal obscurities and details of marginal importance and interest.

    Let me see what you are saying here

    Lets focus upon fair savings and investments and marginalize any form of security for those savings(being a waste of time) which the laws could provide if they were adhered to or if law enforcement was more efficient and less able to be steered by thieves serving in positions of trust.

    Would that be a correct interpretation of your pist?

    .

    .

    oh look! 🙂 🙂 🙂

    The repossession of stolen property (electricity)- is really easy under “claim of right”.
    First turn off the power at the mains switch then bridge or join the two heavy red wires running into the meter part…

    repo jobby 16

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    #1700015
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    jens

    No critic, my post  does not propose  “to marginalize any investment securities”  which is a different  subject matter  with  only marginally  noticeable economic  consequences  in a socio-economic  order where  the  danger  of  enforced nationalization  without  compensation  does  not  exist.

    The possible  difference  in electricity  prices  before and  after “incorporation” and privatization can be only  marginal,  but with the  profitability dependent  variety we can be sure  that it really runs  profitably, whereas in a “social  service” form of management it may become  an unprofitable  burden which  has  to be  subsidized  from profits from  somewhere else.

    With this  clarification  perhaps now you  are  satisfied  to  examine  with more interest  the pros and  cons of better  progress along the Third  Way to  its  destination – upwards  by and for all ?

    #1700020
    Profile photo of criticcritic
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    Member since: June 6, 2011
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    critic

    No critic, my post does not propose “to marginalize any investment securities” which is a different subject matter with only marginally noticeable economic consequences in a socio-economic order where the danger of enforced nationalization without compensation does not exist.

    Next you will be trying to tell me the moon is blue and made of cheese jens …. with a business model the only important factor is milking the cow.
    On more than one occasion now there has been evidence of poor maintenance with the criminals corporate model causing problems including a power outage a few years ago and I believe there is current evidence of poor maintenance in the Christchurch region….. the cost to put this right is going to be added to the price of electricity in that region but ….. cheer up jens the management of the criminals laundry involved- will probably still get bonuses and unreasonably high rewards for doing nothing to date.

    Whatever problems you believe the “Legal” Model had it certainly was not going to be resolved by criminal activities and of course no amount of your bull excrement is going to change the fact that real kiwi’s have been deprived of their interests in their investments as the result of criminal activities you actively support.

    The possible difference in electricity prices before and after “incorporation” and privatization can be only marginal,

    Irrelevant if the difference was only 2c a unit or less jens Because The Law is The Law and stolen property is stolen property… but we both know that not needing to pay a multitude of corporations each with executive structures, advertising budgets, bonuses etc etc plus GST is going to make a significant difference and if you are incapable of seeing that with clarity we should ignore your sales pitch for a third way entirely because it is beginning to sound more like you are trying to build up yet another healthy public fund for your rich mates to milk
    thank you for your clarification of your proposed milking plant.

    Hey…. look at this budget legal processing … “unbridled power” made easy 🙂 🙂 🙂

    The repossession of stolen property (electricity)- is really easy under “claim of right”.
    First turn off the power at the mains switch then bridge or join the two heavy red wires running into the meter part…

    repo jobby 17

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    #1700042
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    jens

    Hi dono21  – what a pleasant  surprise  discovering  the posting on your  quality of  life achieved  through saving.

    If you are prepared to  examine for  discussion the pros and  cons of proceeding along the “third way upwards by and  for all” through intensified participation in saving by all –

    then   any irrelevant  suspicions and accusations  by critic  could be  ignored,  and a  constructive  discussion  continue in a lively  way.

    So then – what  would  your  comments be on resuming the $1000.-  KiwiSaver  kick-starts to all  who  have not  received them  yet,  unconditionally  “from cradle to grave” ?

    This can be done  without  costing  anything  extra,  by  allocating these  kick-starts as  accounts within  the NZ Super Fund existing  there as donated  and earned  by us already,

    No need  to be  shy on critical  questions and  suspicions on that.

     

    #1700129
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    jens

    don021 –

    you are  right in that a lot  of poverty is the  result of  seductively glamorized advertisements to  consume  –  also on credit .

    When  successful  –  market libertarians even  see it  as  economic  “boom time”, but  which actually increases  the wealth of only the  producers  of the  successfully  marketed  consumption  expenditures  –

    and  widens  and perpetuates  poverty  of  all those   who saved  nothing or even consumed their  savings  with  paying  for their  increased (luxury?)  consumption.

    Obviously, the prohibition of  persuasive  advertisements is not  the  answer to this problem,  but a  systematic, permanent  (retirement) wealth  ownership savings  rate  built into our  taxation system effectively  prevents  the  consumption of  all one’ income and savings.

    Never again should we  cease  contributions  into the NZ Super Fund, and the $1000.-  KiwiSaver  kick-start  for  all  will  remain  national capital wealth for up  to 65  years for all new-born  babies, after  which it  can be  consumed for the benefit of all !!!

     

    #1704499
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    jens

    Well don021  –  don’t you think  that resumption of the $1000.- KiwiSaver kick-start  to all  who  missed out  on it  –  unconditionally  “from cradle to grave” –

    would be  an affordable and effective  start along  the Third  Way, not Right nor Left,  but Upwards for all ?

    #1704518
    Profile photo of don021don021
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    Member since: May 15, 2012
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    don021

    Hello Jens, I have not studied Kiwi Saver as my savings days are over and I am now enjoying the benefits of earlier saving. However, if it encourages people to save I am all for it. What bothers me now is the advertising that offers products ” Buy one, get one free” Nothing is free, that just shows the awful mark-up of the product. There are many examples of this sort of advertising, ” all stock half price” A bargain? Appearances are often deceptive. There is no doubt in my mind, saving is the WAY TO GO. Time payment is NOT.

    #1704586
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    jens

    don021 – if there are more  courageous people  like  you not afraid to  proclaim the  truth  on welfare, prosperity and creative  satisfaction and  happiness  generation, the  political  parties  might  also  begin to pay more attention to  this basic  matter for the benefit  of all – even those  beyond  our  borders, if they have excessive  emotional and material  welfare  problems to  cope with.

    While our liberal human  rights would not agree with prohibiting persuasive commercial advertising to  buy consumer goods on  credit which may lead  many to  consume all their income  “hand to mouth”  and become and remain  wealth ownership-less have-nots, this  free market  “neo-liberalist” defectiveness can be  amended  by compulsory saving as  e.g. through our  NZ Super Fund,  for wealth  creation and  maintenance  for  consumption  in retirement.

    KiwiSaver  has the  same purpose on a  more personal  level,  but since  we have  one  compulsory savings scheme already, is it  not  more liberally  fair just to grant the $1000,- kickstart to all  who have not received it  yet, unconditionally “from  cradle to grave” ?

    It  can be financed  by the  savings  we are accumulating and have  accumulated  for  retirement welfare already  in our NZ Super  Fund.

    #1706295
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    jens

    While I have not  read  Rod Oram’s book “The  Big  Questions: What is NZ’s Future” yet, but encouraged  by don021’s  positively  realistic posting, it might be helpful  to have  another  reminder  of the  history and  future  possibilities  of the Third Way, upwards  by and for all:

    To my knowledge, it  emerged initially at an international Socialists  conference in London(?) in the  late 1880-s, when the Social Democratic  welfare state  idea (boosting living  conditions  upwards  for the poor and unfortunate, financed  by taxing average and high incomes)  broke away  from Socialism as  the (mixed economy)   Third Way between  exclusive  private enterprise  capitalism  and Socialism  –  

    and it was successful up  a point.

    But it began crippling the economy  from the point where the  expectations and demands for welfare support  began to encroach on the  adequate savings,  investments and debts repayments willingness and capacity  of the  nation,  leading to the need for reforms as initiated  with the  change of  govt. in 1984, which  neglected to foresee,  that free market  liberalization  did not result in everyone  beginning  to build up  their  own wealth to replace  some of the  welfare  benefits  –

    and the  vigorous  salesmanship  for  increased  consumption  actually  resulted  only in widening poverty by non-savers, and  social  polarization  into Haves and Have-Nots.

    So, since the  shortcomings (faults) of both,  free market liberalism  and excessive welfareism have now been revealed and experienced, and  with even worse experiences and evidence under Socialism,  and Social Credit  still  not trusted as  the “funny money” theory (tested and  given up in Canada) –

    the Third Way  – or “Ownership Society”  concept –  towards at  least  a minimally  meaningful level of  personal  (retirement) wealth ownership by all citizens eventually  will be  a natural  contender for the  answer to the  question: “What  is NZ’s  Future?”.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of jens jens.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of jens jens.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of jens jens.
    #1708176
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    jens

    Since no  explained opposition  to the  Third Way  upwards by and for all  in consumption potential, economic  security  and  wealth ownership has emerged so far – and  majority  approval of  non-compulsory KiwiSaving is reflected in the  daily press  –  the time is ripe  for  reminding the public  about  how progress along the Third Way towards  at least some minimally meaningful wealth  ownership by all can be accelerated  through our  universal NZ Super Fund  contributions  being registered  in the  name of their contributors’ Personal Accounts – PAs  –  within the  NZ Super Fund.

    This does not mean the  privatization of NZ Super,  but only  a more  fair effort  to  keep a fair rate of universal NZ Super sustainable  from  age  65,  with   PAs  financing their  owners’ NZ Super  until consumed at the rate of NZ Super  –   at which point PAYGO (Pay As You Go) automatically  takes over  NZ Super payments.

    The increased  fairness of this is that in the  case of  death  before  reaching age  65, or  all of the PA has not been  consumed by financing its  owner’s NZ Super,  it is part of its owner’s estate for the  benefit  of the  owners’ beneficiaries.

    Like  with KiwiSaver, a  NZ Super  Fund PA would also be  available for investment in first  home  ownership without compromising its purpose of helping to  keep  NZ Super  sustainable by the full value of  contributions (+ earnings) to  a PA.

    Critical  questions and  evidence backed counter-arguments  welcome.

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by Profile photo of jens jens. Reason: Did not come out correctly
    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by Profile photo of jens jens. Reason: Did not come out correctly
    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by Profile photo of jens jens. Reason: Did not come out correctly
    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by Profile photo of jens jens.
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