- February 1, 2007 at 8:17 pm #90711
Thought we might have something controversial for a change.
I’m against the re introduction of the death penalty;I believe it’s something which has no place in civilised society.
Because we’re human,we make mistakes & there’s a chance that an innocent person might be executed.
Then of course there’s always the chance that a murderer may just turn their life around & do some good – it’s unusual,but it has happened.
As a deterrent,it fairly obviously doesn’t work – America being an excellent example.
What do others think?February 2, 2007 at 1:02 am #90712
quote Because we’re human,we make mistakes & there’s a chance that an innocent person might be executed..unquote from belladonna.
I am in total agreeance with your statement above belladonna, and i would hate to see another innocent person executed, or even imprisoned for that matter.
At least with imprisonment everyone has a long time to keep trying to prove their innocence, and even though it is ‘criminal’ that part of their life has been wasted, they at least have their life…(and hopefully will become millionaires in the event of them being proven innocent)!
So even though I believe in a life for a life, for the deliberate act of murder, (not for manslaughter though), I would rather see the murderer have the lighter sentence.(for the sake of the innocent convicted person)
I would be happy to see life imprisonment mean just that though (.In other words he stays in prison for the rest of his days)!
A justice system should be just that. Justice for the victims.February 2, 2007 at 8:39 am #90713
nandiMemberMember since: July 10, 2006
Yes, so sadly it often the victims or their families who are forgotten in so many terrible crimes. I and my family are victims of such a terrible crime so sorry if this will offend but I think if the murderer is guilty beyond doubt then they should be executed!!!!!!!!!!! Imprisonment in this day means nothing. They may get 10 years sentence but are released so easy on parole, in just a few short years, and many of them, only to reoffend. If someone is given a life sentence they should serve that sentence for LIFE, but then again why should be as tax payers pay for these scum to be given such a good deal in life. Perhaps it should go back to the old bread and water prisons and hard manual labour and maybe, just maybe it might be a deterrent.February 2, 2007 at 3:03 pm #90714
Yes, so sadly it often the victims or their families who are forgotten in so many terrible crimes. I and my family are victims of such a terrible crime so sorry if this will offend but I think if the murderer is guilty beyond doubt then they should be executed!!!!!!!!!!! Imprisonment in this day means nothing. They may get 10 years sentence but are released so easy on parole, in just a few short years, and many of them, only to reoffend. If someone is given a life sentence they should serve that sentence for LIFE, but then again why should be as tax payers pay for these scum to be given such a good deal in life. Perhaps it should go back to the old bread and water prisons and hard manual labour and maybe, just maybe it might be a deterrent.
Nandi,no disrepect whatever is meant towards the victims of crime. And I don’t think it’s entirely true that they’re forgotten – we now have the Victim Support organisation,which may not be much but is surely better than nothing.
I do see what you mean about life not really being for the term of the person’s natural life – but our laws just aren’t written that way.
I really don’t agree that bread & water & hard labour is going to help anyone – it may satisfy the punitive,vindictive side of our natural reaction to crime – but it didn’t do much good when it was last used & could actually worsen the situation. Do we want people coming out of prison even more embittered & angry than they were when they were sentenced?February 2, 2007 at 4:56 pm #90715
hello Nandi. i’m so sorry you and your family went through such a terrible time.
Sad to say, there is a problem with proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Look at all of the innocent people who rotted away in prison for many many years, because they were ‘proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt’..the jurys and courts were completely wrong, and no one can recompense the innocent fully for the injustice of this, and I can’t see it changing in the near future…some of the ones proven innocent were put to death before the proof of their innocence was there to see./ the system is so imperfect as we all are, so i call it a LEGAL system, not a JUSTICE system,.
Nobody can make up to you and your family for what has happened in your life nandi, but i do know that if the person was put to death there would be a certain amount of closure for you, and satuisfaction that justice has been done, even though it did not rectify what happened to you….
I firmly believe though that those criminals will get their just deserts in the end, but you will not know about it.
my regards to youFebruary 5, 2007 at 8:49 am #90716
nandiMemberMember since: July 10, 2006
On re reading my submission I must admit I sounded very bitter about criminals as a whole. Yes, I agree these criminals will get their just desserts in the end. I know I will become a stronger person when I can come to terms with our family devastation and forgive, but meanwhile it is very hard. I still think goal terms are not a strong or long enough deterrent to criminals and think this should be looked at by the powers that be. Maybe if some of these young folk knew they would get put away or such like for longer they may think twice about committing the crime in the first instance.
I have to wonder why crime (especially murder) is so much more happening today than many years ago. We seem to hear of one nearly everyday now but why??????February 5, 2007 at 10:46 am #90717
Probably because it is in their (murderers ) daily diet on television – I see the shorts of programmes and I shudder .
I recall someone saying -“what we are prepared to allow in our living rooms we will see on our streets” ….
Forgiveness is now seen as letting someone get away with it – a soft option – on a personal level ,bitterness is a normal reaction ,try not to let it destroy you . . We will be thinking of you – I trust you have supportive friends who will let you talk as long as it takes .
I believe in the death penalty for proven murder -innocent blood cries from the ground for justice … It is a deterrent for criminals …Fear of the consequences …
Emelle.February 5, 2007 at 7:02 pm #90718
caminitoMemberMember since: February 2, 2007
death penalty has a wide and varied application from different countries……38 states in the usa….singapore….middle east…
and many others…..varying from ‘so called humane’…..which killing a human being is hard to look at as humane……to the downright barbaric………who remembers the 21yr old in singapore……..my personal conviction is…..no death penalty….period……..having said that….i would like to look at a range of justice applications……..from the stark bare essentials for continuing life…..to the less rigid…….then again i have not had a loved one tortured…..abducted or any other ghastly deed inflicted…….thank heavens……lots of awful things happen in our nz……..but i still want it as my home……..February 6, 2007 at 12:35 am #90719
Lack of love for others is a prime reason for criminal activity. these people have no conscience either it seems, and as emelle says the garbage dished up on Tv does not help fine tune the conscience.
i believe the other reason is the lack of fitting punishment ..maybe they should bring the stocks back..wouldn’t they just hate to be on public display and humiliated, and public flogging..it’s a good deterrent too, but not fitting in our day and age,.
Prison terms do need to be much harsher to act as a deterrent but it will not stop the crime. The death penalty would definitely decrease murder, as when it was the law there were very few murders….but it will not come back i’m sure.
In the news i see people asking for life sentences to be for the length of the criminals life, so i feel that is the most we can hope for.February 6, 2007 at 2:28 pm #90720
I do think there are some who will always need to be locked away because they’re a danger to society.
The thing about the death penalty as a deterrent is that it just doesn’t work – we need only look at the American situation to realise that. They also have presently a situation where some prisoners on death row were proved to be innocent,by using DNA.
The death penalty may satisfy our natural human desire to punish & extract revenge – but that is perhaps not a thing which is good.February 6, 2007 at 3:45 pm #90721
The attitude of those who have suffered ,and I mean Suffered ,a loss of a family member ,is not really ‘punish and revenge ‘ at all – but to see true justice done …Why should the murderer live ? I cared for a young teenager who lost a darling ,cherished mother through the most brutal circumstances .I know the nights when they were still awake at 1 am ,or when they were too scared to go to the toilet alone …I know the need for a Mum when the school ball comes ,or praise for a good school report ,or help to fix something .I could be a friend to support ,but I could never be her Mum.
Emelle.February 7, 2007 at 1:13 pm #90722
PolarMemberMember since: October 28, 2006
I believe in the adage “an eye for an eye,etc”.
One thing is certain,when a killer is executed they will NOT reoffend.
The killer felt no pity for their victim and I feel no pity or sympathy for ANY criminal,as for the statement that TV is a major cause of crime – rubbish! I am convinced that it starts at an early age and only the parents are to blame,especially today in this PC ridden society where succesive governments like to put the concerns of children and minority groups before the concerns of the average citizen,for example,a quick short smack (not a beating) never did any child any harm whatsoever,but I reckon the same smack did do “a lot of good”
As we are not likely to see a return to Capital punishment I suppose the most we can hope for is “life to mean life” and much longer terms for lesser crimes.
Regards, GrahameFebruary 7, 2007 at 2:48 pm #90723
Certain Tv programs can dull the conscience I believe and this can lead to crime even if it is the ‘smaller’ type of crime.. It encourages disrespect for others including the parents authority .It can dull the consciences of adults and children alike. (don’t get me wrong, I love TV and enjoy certain favourite programs)
I’m not saying it is the base cause of crime but CAN or MAY have an effect.
Years ago I was watching willy nilly whatever i wanted, and did not stir a hair at seeing all sorts of bad things portrayed.
I then decided i was going to have a long break from TV and was away from it for about 3 years. When i did go back to it I felt horrified at some of the things displayed, a gun pulled out caused me to cover my face in shock..lol..It did not take long before my conscience was dulled to it all. Now, I for one am strong enough not to be swayed into doing these things myself, as are many of us, but there is an element of changeability in many other individuals who can be swayed by these things that are being fed into their brains. I have often seen the statement “we saw it done on TV, so we did it too”.
This is not to say that TV is bad ..period…but it starts with the physical violence in cartoons for the very young..the disrespect towards parents and others in the programs for children , and goes on to worse things as people grow older.
There are hereditary factors too. How many times do we hear..’he’s just like uncle Fred..he was a vagabond and a thief too”. I have seen articles that support the inherant factor in certain individuals. these are the more likely people to be influenced into criminal activities.
If parents have 9 children, and 8 turn out to be ‘good’ citizens, and one turns to crime, and they all were given the same upbringing, how can the parents be to blame… if those particular parents are to blame for the bad one, they are also to be ‘blamed’ for the good ones. and in this instance there are 8..
Perhaps this one ‘bad’ one inherited Uncle freds traits..
There is also the food factor… many children and adults behaviour are badly affected by the foods they are eating. I have seen many cases myself and read of heaps..these people were all involved in activities that affected other peoples lives in a bad way. when they changed to healthy eating,( with supplements in soma cases as well), there was a big change around in their behaviour.
Tests were done in prison on criminals behaviour with the usual 3 groups, one normal eating, one on high quality healthy eating, and one with high quality eating and supplements.
The 3rd one always came out tops, the 2nd one came 2nd but with remarkable results, and the 3rd group remained the same.
It was behavioural change and attitude towards others. the top 2 groups became model prisoners.
they did the same tests on unruly students at uni and came up with the same results..
I agree that many are being influenced by the internet as well, ..
and one could say that the parents are to blame for what their kids are being occupied with..but parents are imperfect too..we all made mistakes in the past i am sure of that.
I hope you realise i am not saying ‘Rubbish’ to anything you are saying..just a different point of view..OK?/
My regards to you and all grownups on this lovely site. Robyn.February 7, 2007 at 2:56 pm #90724
EMELLE,part of the reason I’m against the death penalty is because of the distinct possibility that an innocent person may be executed – we need only look at the Arthur Allan Thomas case to see that it could indeed happen.
And surely a desire for true justice would be served by life (actual life) imprisonment.
BOBBITTY: I think you make a good point with regard to some kids being mor likely to be influenced by some TV programmes – also very interesting about the heredity factor. Who knows,maybe one day a cause & possibly a cure/preventative may be found for criminal behaviour.February 7, 2007 at 3:15 pm #90725
thanks belladonna..I added a bit extra in that post about the effects of food so you may have missed that bit..regards robyn
PS..I have the same view about the innocent as you do.February 7, 2007 at 11:24 pm #90726
mumshillMemberMember since: March 22, 2006
We need some commonsense in our judicial system.Read up about Sheriff Joe Arpaio.Prison is no longer a holiday camp costing tax payers an arm and a leg it is a case of “let the punishment fit the crime “without the “do as I say not do as I do “attitude of the death penalty and some other barbaric punishmentsFebruary 8, 2007 at 12:04 pm #90727
pearlyMemberMember since: July 30, 2006
our laws need to be toughened up..i somehow think that the death penalty is needed in some cases,but i dont think that would ever come back to newzealand..its a tricky situation as there is always the real innocent..but for the ones that have a history of crimes i would like them taken out of society.
i would also like to have the mental institutions bought back and run in a different way to of the old days.maybe bring back the borstals we use to have ,but run differently.
im not in favour of at home with a tag on leg,breaking the law is a crime,so they need to do time.but realize prisons getting full..,,
i also want to see where all crime cases dont take as long as they do to get to the courts,its way too long….anyway thats just my viewFebruary 8, 2007 at 1:24 pm #90728
Totally agree with you Pearly . There needs to be secure mental institutions for those who are a danger to themselves and others ;Separate from hardened criminals .
The A.A .Thomas case is an example of what Bobbity calls ‘legal system’ ,not ‘justice system ‘..The prosecution call witnesses , ,but if they do ,then the defence is not allowed to call the same ones ..so what happened in his case ,is that the prosecution deliberately called witnesses which they knew could have cleared him ,but did not ask them to take the stand ,so the defence did not have the defence they needed – rotten ,eh ? ( not to mention bamboozling the jury with cartridge case stuff )
Emelle.February 8, 2007 at 3:18 pm #90729
I do agree about the need for secure institutions – dislike the word,but can’t think of another suitable one – but run along more up tp date lines,rather than the gloomy old ones we once had.
I’m not a fan of Sheriff Joe,can’t really understand how degrading & humiliating prisoners will help turn them into better people,though it might make them more wary & careful.
Bobbity: just read what you posted about diet – very interesting,I understand that some think diet may be linked to things like ADDHD & Autism. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if such dreadful things could be cured/treated by simply changing the diet.February 8, 2007 at 3:44 pm #90730
hi Belladonna..ADDH can be helped tremendously by diet and some completely ‘cured’…Autism victims have also been helped a lot too..so the opportunity is there, but people don’t do it I’m afraid, and lots never get to hear about it.
Some cases have a reason for it being there in the first place, that can only be helped, but not undone completely. Some become Autistic after being vaccinated, which is a controversial subject I know, So these poor people’s behaviour can be helped somewhat but not undone.
i have seen tv programs on these groups and the diet they were on was appalling..ADDH is akin to hyperactivity, it’s worse cousin so to speak. One can lead into the other.
We have hyperactivity and ADDH in relatives and I have seen them ‘switched on’ by the foods they ate, and guess who gave them the foods. (but they don’t do anything about it)
now the main sufferer is the one that belongs to the hand that fed them, sad to say.
Behavioural patterns are definitely linked in many cases to foods, and this includes the crims…All this from things read and seen.and personal experiences, .plus my opinions and conclusions of course..
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