- #1720102arandar May 23, 2019 at 4:14 pm
That’s an interesting development.
Ngaro is a sitting MP albeit a List MP and, in his own way, he has a profile and access to the media in Parliament. I imagine the MSM will lap this up – something new and probably easily mocked yet guaranteed to attract clicks – from their point of view and the general public too possibly, a distraction from the issues of health, mental health, education, housing and failing infrastructure. Not to mention climate change.
Two ‘Christian Parties’ is probably one too many to be very effective, they’d merely take votes from each other, but joining like this would overcome that problem nicely.
They’d probably stand candidates in all the Maori Electorates which could make a dent in Labour’s numbers but that’s where many of their potential voters are, there and in the Pacifica electorates.
Destiny Church followers will be exhorted to vote for the Tamaki Party. I wonder how many of them there are. It always seems a goodly number attending all their protest rallies.
The idea of them partnering National into a future government is … 🙄
Well, suffice to say, I doubt they’d be a match made in heaven.
Arandar#1720104Hero42 May 23, 2019 at 4:52 pm
This from Wikipedia:
At its peak in 2003, Destiny Church had a network of 19 churches throughout New Zealand, with a total membership in excess of 5,000. By June 2012 it had 11 remaining churches, with fewer than 3000 regular attendees. Churches have closed in Porirua, Wanganui and Dunedin. By June 2013, Destiny Church Wanganui was no longer listed on the main church website. In addition, other branches had Kaitaia, Opotiki, Taumaranui, and Hawkes Bay had either closed down or merged with other church branches.
If those numbers are accurate and we assume they are all of voting age and vote for the [party then that would be about the vote the Mana party or the Ban 1080 party got at the last election. Or about 0.1% of the vote.
So the big question is how many christian voters would abandon the mainstream parties to vote for a christian party. The conservative party is the closest and they only got 0.2% of the vote last time. It may come down to how likely voters think the new party has of getting elected in the first place.
Cheers 🙂#1720141halcyon May 23, 2019 at 9:19 pm
Actually Hero, it is not a Christian Party. The self elected leader confirmed that when they announced the creation of the party. She made it very clear that it was not about Destiny Church, and insisted it wasn’t even a Christian party, though she did make it clear they were standing on Christian values.
I actually think that it is a Hannah Tamaki vanity project party. It must be rather hard living in the shadow of a self acclaimed bishop.
But what the move has done is to guarantee the current Government will have another term in Office.
It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right.#1720143arandar May 24, 2019 at 12:56 am
I’d like to think so Halcyon 😉 but I wonder why you think that. There are many months to go before we get to vote again and a lot can happen.
I’m encouraged by your numbers above: I hate to think so many poor people are being tithed to enrich these US-style televangelists. Everything I hear either of them say or see them do; their conspicuous consumption, their poor education & utter lack of self awareness really worries me.
I remember the cunning way Hannah T tried to take over the MWWL, the way Brian T tried to ram his Man Up programme into our prisons without going through a proper process, his black clad body guards and gangsta costumes, the horrible disrespect shown at an ANZAC Day service I read about, the protest outside one of the Christchurch mosques after the murderous attack on its members … to my way of thinking these are not good people.
That was a very odd interview I thought. I wonder if they rushed to launch their party before they were nearly ready because it seemed Alfred Ngaro might be about to announce his new party.
They don’t even know what their core policies will be. What is a political party but a vehicle to carry your political policies through the political process.
All very interesting.
Arandar#1720145halcyon May 24, 2019 at 9:19 am
My rational for suggesting that what the move has done is to guarantee the current Government will have another term in Office is based on National needing a coalition partner to gain the Treasury Benches.
And like you, “I wonder if they rushed to launch their party before they were nearly ready because it seemed Alfred Ngaro might be about to announce his new party”. By so doing they risk taking some votes that could have gone to a main stream Christian/ Conservative position party. There is room for such a party in NZ. Such a party would give voice on those issues where a proportion of the population are opposed to the direction the country is heading.
One only has to look overseas to see the development of such parties and their input into the debate of various issues like whether biological men should be able to access women’s restrooms.
It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right.#1720146lilith7MemberMember since: April 9, 2017
Replies: 2029lilith7 May 24, 2019 at 11:03 am
I take the view that religion has no place in politics;there’s good reason for the divide between church & state.
One article cites the possibility of Hone Harawira joining the Tamaki party (apparently to be called the Coalition party,just for maximum confusion) which could be extremely interesting, given his history.
I have absolutely zero regard for the Tamaki’s – they seem to see their church as a lucrative business which allows them to live a luxurious life by taking from those least able to afford it.
So far according to Hannah Tamaki,she’d like to see abortion made illegal again & immigration cut back drastically. So its very clear that there’s a lack of both empathy & basic knowledge of what’s happening in some parts of the world.
They’re also claiming that its not a christian party – yet how could it be anything else,given their views.
May it meet with exactly the same degree of success their previous efforts in the political sphere met with – oblivion.#1720149Hero42 May 24, 2019 at 11:26 am
I stand corrected, thank you for clearing that up.
I jumped to the conclusion it was a christian based party as opposed to a coalition party that is guided by christian values.
I wonder how the voters see it.
Interestingly in 2003, Destiny Church members started the Destiny New Zealand political party with Tamaki as its “spiritual adviser”. But it got less than 1 percent of the vote in the 2005 election and was deregistered.
Christian parties aren’t new for New Zealand. Colin Craig’s Conservative Party got 4 percent of votes in 2014, and the Christian Coalition – led by convicted paedophile Graham Capill – got 4.33 percent in 1996.
Cheers 🙂#1720150Hero42 May 24, 2019 at 11:35 am
I presume your post about political parties having input into the debate of various issues like whether biological men should be able to access women’s restrooms relates to the US where they have, in my opinion, very outdated views.
The reason I say that is because 40 years ago when I was in France I went into a public convenience which was a long building with stalls along half of one wall for the men, wash hand basins along the other half of the wall and cubicles along the opposite wall for both men and women.
No one seemed to mind, everyone just got on with answering the call of nature and didn’t look at what the others were doing.
Mind you the French always have been open minded, I was a little taken aback by the number of topless women in public places, not just on the beaches, but no one seemed to care, it was all just natural and normal.
Cheers 🙂#1720158halcyon May 24, 2019 at 12:47 pm
Very true Hero, the debate rages in the USA. I have even seen the issue raised here in NZ. I can remember a certain MP (the name escapes me) who referred to someone else as a TERF because of this issue.
I have no skin in the argument. If I need a leak I have a leak. If there are no toilets around then I can always find some bushes. I remember when I first started on the trucks a driver could urinate behind the front wheel and the Cops would not react. However, I can imagine that is harder for women.
And as you say, it is time we grew up. Maybe if we addressed the way women are treated then we could adopt the type of toilet structure the French had.
It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right.#1720163arandar May 24, 2019 at 1:03 pm
At the Bowl of Brooklands in New Plymouth where I attended almost every concert held, there were never enough toilets for women – equal numbers as men’s but of course, women took longer to get in and out so the queues were for Africa outside the women’s loos and practically non existent outside the men’s.
So, unless we wanted to spend half the concert trying to spend a penny we used the men’s. The men didn’t seem to mind, as said above, no one looked but just got on doing what we do, and got out but one woman told the rest of us, ‘Hey girls, we’re in their place now so remember to leave the seat up, okay!’ and we all laughed and did.
Women using women’s restrooms have never been 100% safe from male on female assault or female on female assault actually, and I for one have no objection to sharing a restroom with anyone, regardless of their sex or gender, as long as they’re clean, tidy and mind their own business.
What I object to, strenuously, is all the ‘moral panic’ and finger pointing at anyone a bit different.
Religion has no place in politics, the state has no place in the bedrooms, or the restrooms, or the doctors’ surgeries of the nation other than to ensure people are as safe as they can be, IMO.
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