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our say on what’s happening today

This topic contains 30258 replies, has 234 voices, and was last updated by  arandar 4 days, 7 hours ago.

Discussions News & Current Affairs (excluding Politics) our say on what’s happening today

Viewing 10 posts - 30,141 through 30,150 (of 30,259 total)
  • #1737337
    paulinem
    Member
    Member since: July 8, 2006
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 1073
    paulinem

    I find it extraordinary that there re people out there who seem wuite happy tp let old folk suffedr in the last days of their life when relief is at hand.Humanity gone out the door.

    The reason Don they are not suffering in the last days of their life. Yes 30 plus years ago you might have a point, but this is 2019. Today with the advancement in medicine, and medical treatment, people whom have been diagnosed with cancer and many are going on to live long painless lives, such is the advancement in medicine etc in today’s world.

    I can give you as evidence two cases I personally know about  to prove my point. Case  1 a true story – A lady I worked with in charity OP shop, I was picking her up to take her to work in the shop with me approx three years ago. She told me then 3yrs ago she was told she had cancer and only had six weeks to live, she was not in pain re medication, but did need to rest more than normal etc. Don she has just died three years later and in her  tributes at her funeral,  there was no mention of horrific pain etc, instead she made the most of the time she had to spend happily and in full with her family and her partner.

    Case 2 true story. This women was someone I knew from school days. Told me two years ago she had cancer, a death sentence when we were young, she told me she didn’t expect to live much longer, and was thus spending her time left to say good bye etc. Don two years later she has just come home from a world trip with her sister.  I saw her recently the women I meet is looking good and healthy no sign of cancer etc but still has it no she is not suffering horribly as you and Seymour friends suggest she would be!

    Don 1200 doctors signed a letter to the parliamentarians saying dont go there  re Seymour’s legislation, They could see there were very  concerning  holes in this legislation that will open it to abuse such as is happening overseas in euthanasia or assisted suicide available countries. and communities.

    In short Don we dont live any longer in the bad old world  of the past where medicine etc was not advanced as it is today. Years past yes some might have died horrible etc, but due to the love and care at hospices today this is not the issue today etc. This is why people like me are horrified at Seymours anti life legislation, its why the Hospices of NZ have come out firmly against the legislation.

     

    #1737339
    halcyon
    Member
    Member since: May 4, 2014
    Topics: 8
    Replies: 4966
    halcyon

    Paulinem, it is true that medical science has made great advances in the last 30 years. And yes, pain control has improved. But unfortunately modern medicine does not provide relief for every case. There are those who can not benefit from what the drug companies have to offer.

    And even with medication there are side effects. Therefore the medicine that keeps one alive can cause extreme discomfort. Medicine is not the answer for all people.

    And yes, there are doctors who do oppose the legislation, just as there are doctors who support it.  The Dying with Dignity argument is similar to abortion argument. There are those on both sides of the argument who hold strong positions often based on religious or philosophical beliefs.

    If we, as a society,  accept that abortion is a tolerable practice, then I fail  to see how we, as a society can oppose euthanasia of the terminally ill at their request.

    And please do not interpret that last paragraph as a declaration of my position of either. I am just highlighting the similarity between both euthanasia and abortion.

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” (George Orwell, The Animal Farm)

    #1737340
    huiatahi
    Member
    Member since: March 22, 2017
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 1032
    huiatahi

    Paulinem…..in neither of your cases the women were not in pain so I doubt if either would choose euthanasia.  It is there for when the pain becomes unbearable and dignity has gone out the window.  Please don’t deny them the choice

    huiatahi

    #1737348
    paulinem
    Member
    Member since: July 8, 2006
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 1073
    paulinem

    Paulinem…..in neither of your cases the women were not in pain so I doubt if either would choose euthanasia. It is there for when the pain becomes unbearable and dignity has gone out the window. Please don’t deny them the choice

    Huiatahi …the pacific islanders in Parliament all said unanimously said they would never support this legislation as it condoned suicide … something totally a no no to there  culture … which is interesting  your above response as obvious you feel Maoris do condone  suicide …??

    Are you totally sure that today’s medical science/hospice  cannot deal with any suggested pain etc by all the ones  you are concerned about ??

    #1737349
    paulinem
    Member
    Member since: July 8, 2006
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 1073
    paulinem

    Halcyon…you said some Doctors approve of this assisted suicide legislation…..interesting who are they? As I  dont remember seeing any news item email facebook message from a doctor in favour of Seymours legislation. Could you post a link etc or something to support what you wrote above please

    #1737352
    huiatahi
    Member
    Member since: March 22, 2017
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 1032
    huiatahi

    I don’t connect suicide with euthanasia/ assisted dying Paulinem and I don’t think anyone condones suicide be they Maori or any other race.  I know you’re going to say they are the same thing and in your mind that may be so but I certainly hope when it comes to voting there are not too many like you.

    huiatahi

    #1737358
    paulinem
    Member
    Member since: July 8, 2006
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 1073
    paulinem

    Huiatahi – Parliament debated that the wording of the referendum to be more honest by saying instead of right to die legislation call it assisted suicide/ euthanasia legislation.

    In other words you are kidding yourself euthanasia and suicide are the same. This legislation wants to make it legal that another  medical human can  assist the sick person to commit suicide.

    #1737359
    huiatahi
    Member
    Member since: March 22, 2017
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 1032
    huiatahi

    Of course the name of the Bill was debated, there are some politicians who feel the same as you which is their right however the majority didn’t and the name of the Bill is End of Life Choice Bill….nowhere in the Bill is the word suicide mentioned.  The politicians have moved on and so should you.

    huiatahi

    #1737360
    halcyon
    Member
    Member since: May 4, 2014
    Topics: 8
    Replies: 4966
    halcyon

    Paulinem, I am sorry but I do not keep a record of everything I read. And I do not rely on Facebook for my news. I read as widely as possible for my information.

    Secondly, I refer to the analogy of abortion. When the abortion legislation was relaxed a number of years ago there were many doctors who criticised the move. Yet we have doctors approving and  undertaking abortions here in NZ. No doctor has to approve an abortion against their beliefs. We will see the same in respect of euthanasia if the referendum supports the legislation.

    As with abortion, some doctors value the sanctity of life. Other doctors value the personal right of choice. The behaviour of the doctor will be guided by their beliefs.

    At least our society has the opportunity of having a say in this matter by way of the referendum. I look forward with interest to see how the majority vote.

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” (George Orwell, The Animal Farm)

    #1737363
    arandar
    Member
    Member since: November 23, 2009
    Topics: 31
    Replies: 10820
    arandar

    ‘Two women have terminal cancer diagnoses.

    They have not died.

    They look healthy and say they’re happy.

    Therefore we can safely assume all people with a terminal  illness diagnosis will live happy and healthy’ until … what?

    Until they die?

    Oh.

    Hang on. Until they enter the final stages of their lives whenever that may be? That is the point we’re discussing here, not that people can live well with a terminal illness, and btw, dementia is also a terminal illness and it’s not a great way to live and a miserable way to die, IMO.

    I’ve known people; my parents included who died ‘good deaths’, one of met cancer, over 40years ago.

    I’ve known people who did not, quite recently. Medical advances do not help in every instance. What made a great deal of difference was their fear; not of death but if dying, as I said before.

    One thing I know, with 100% certainty from their experiences in their own words, was knowing they had the choice, in countries where euthanasia is legal, to call it quits if dying became unbearable, their major fears were put to rest and they were able to go through the process of dying naturally and did not need to choose chemical release. As a result they remained present and in control until the last few hours when they slipped into comas and then into death.

     

    Arandar

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