- #1742632Hero42 February 13, 2020 at 4:15 pm
The people who can see the danger the planet is in are all taking action, less driving, switching to renewable power, flying less, not taking overseas holidays, eating less meat.
Are you taking any action or are are you prepared to condemn the future generations to a more miserable lifestyle than you have enjoyed?
What are these hard choices of which you and Rob speak.
He suggests a car free day a week. Is that a hard choice? I would say not as I have gone for more car free days per week than that.
What are the hard choices?
How many days without a car?
How many meat free days?
How many flights given up per year?
Cheers 🙂#1742691totaraMemberMember since: November 29, 2007
Replies: 562totara February 14, 2020 at 11:19 am
I clearly remember the car free days. Everyone that I knew had an exemption, including me.#1742700gabyoneMemberMember since: November 13, 2008
Replies: 2822gabyone February 14, 2020 at 1:34 pm
Yes fine to talk about carless days when you live in an area serviced by public transport. During that time my husband worked 2 jobs both a distance from home. So he worked 6 days a week while I stayed home, with 4 young children, then on 7th day we were carless so could not go far. Many families with 2 cars were ok. As always it is the poorer folk who end up being most penalised.
Gabyone Auckland region#1742705halcyonMemberMember since: May 4, 2014
Replies: 5025halcyon February 14, 2020 at 2:52 pm
My last post was very clear Hero. But as you seemed to have missed my main point here it is:
the houses we are building, on average, produce 5 times more CO2, over their lifetime, than we can afford if we want to meet our goals in 2050.
In other words we need to reduce the size and the stand-alone model of housing. I suggested home unites in groupings up to six stories high. Thus minimising the steel requirement and maximising the use of wood so as to store carbon, In other words, we need to rethink our accommodation and land use options at a personal level.
On a person basis. We are currently changing residents. Our new place is 77% the size of our old home. The nearest bus stop is right in front of the house. My wife will have a 20 minute walk to work or a six minute bike ride. (In other words we will reduce our private vehicle travel by as much as 90%) The location we have chosen is not a popular location. Our decision was based on reducing our CO2 emissions.
We buy as much locally produced food as possible, preferring to buy our jam and pickles from the local church fundraiser. (All empty jars are returned for reuse). And grow as much of our own veges as possible. All vege waste goes into compost.
In addition I have informed my children in Australia that I will possibly never see them again. My grandchildren accept that because they have bought into the climate change crisis.
The day our sporting bodies decided to stop traipsing all over the world, just to play games, I have promised to give up my lamb chops but not before then. If others do not take climate change seriously then I an damned if I will make that large a sacrifice.
“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” (George Orwell, The Animal Farm)
#1742712Hero42 February 14, 2020 at 3:10 pm
- This reply was modified 1 week ago by halcyon.
Sorry I meant to respond to the housing point but forgot.
True the building industry needs to address their processes. It is possible to get a carbon neutral home built but it costs more in up front costs although in the long term it will be better.
The current government and the previous government working with the Greens have done work towards improving insulation so that less power is needed to heat the homes.
But the building industry needs to focus on more long term solutions possibly driven by building regulations to reduce the CO2 released.
Cheers 🙂#1742713Hero42 February 14, 2020 at 3:17 pm
Its good to see you as an individual are taking action as are many more of us. All these little things will add up to help the problem.
I find it interesting that Rob023 suggests carless days given that as he lives in a rural area he wouldn’t be effected by the scheme if it was introduced in the same form as previously. My suspicions are that as the carless days scheme was very unpopular at the time Rob023 wants the scheme reintroduced to make the current government less popular than they are. Perhaps if he had suggested the other petrol saving scheme introduced at the time, reducing the open road speed limit, I would be less skeptical of his motives. The reduction of speed limits would effect him regardless of where he lived.
The original carless scheme was open to too many rorts with people having two cars or buying an old banger to get a second sticker which they could swap.
People voluntarily adopting carless days is a much better solution.
Cheers 🙂#1742719Hero42 February 14, 2020 at 3:44 pm
Following on from one of Paulinem’s posts this has happened.
Scientists in Antarctica recorded the region’s highest ever temperature on Sunday, sparking concerns climate change is accelerating.
Brazilian researchers were working at Seymour Island in the section of the Antarctic region closest to South America when they recorded a temperature of 20.75C.
The new record is almost a full degree higher than the previous record of 19.8C which was set in January 1982 at nearby Signy Island.
Of course we know that two record breaking temperatures in quick succession may not be a sign in itself but needs to be taken in a pattern. So you can check this:
The continent-wide average surface temperature trend of Antarctica is positive and significant at >0.05 °C/decade since 1957. The West Antarctic ice sheet has warmed by more than 0.1 °C/decade in the last 50 years, with most of the warming occurring in winter and spring.
The effects of global warming in Antarctica may include rising temperatures and increasing snowmelt and ice loss. A summary study in 2018 incorporating calculations and data from many other studies estimated that total ice loss was 43 gigatons per year on average during the period from 1992 to 2002 but has accelerated to an average of 220 gigatons per year during the five years from 2012 to 2017.
There is more information here:
Antarctica has experienced air temperature increases of 3°C in the Antarctic Peninsula. Although that might not seem very much, it is 5 times the mean rate of global warming as reported by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
And if you want to check what is happening in the arctic as well as the antarctic because they are different then go here:
More journalistic and less science in that one.
Cheers 🙂#1742788rob023MemberMember since: October 7, 2011
Replies: 1619rob023 February 15, 2020 at 2:44 pm
To me, the planet is doing fine, it’s the humans that are the problem.
The planet and its self-managing climate machinery and nature will be here and doing just great long after humans have gone extinct.
Or is there some ‘super plan’ I haven’t heard about how eight billion humans will evolve and adjust to survive the upcoming ice age.
If they haven’t figured out how to save and store water in times of plenty of rainfall and can’t cope with warm, they sure as heck won’t be able to cope when there’s much less rainfall and cold.
Clearly no high ranking at least members of parliament see any danger or problems.
Surely the ever eager to please controlled msm would tell us which high ranking members have decided to set an example and have:
1. 100% given up their chaffeur and/or self drive cars in favour of push bikes or walking;
2. 100% switched to engaging in video-conferencing link meetings instead of flying business or first class to things like climate,finance or how to build houses type meetings:
3. had full solar panels coverage installed on their rooves or moved to an area where wind turbines are the only source of electricity.
I can’t say which of them refused to have overseas holidays over the Christmas break, but I know for certain at least four went overseas, and one went overseas twice.
It would be interesting to know if Bellamys have been instructed to have less meat on offer.
I look forward to hearing Housing NZ are installing solar panels on every square inch of north facing rooves (very common overseas) on every State house they manage along with the pollution caused and carbon footprint made.
I imagine the cost of installing and maintaining solar panels including the high rated batteries is well out of reach for the average Mum n Dad with two kids type household.
Eating less meat is dead easy for the masses given the price of it.
On my suggestion of car-less days, I stated I’m quite prepared to put up with no driving for four days a week.
Of course for some people even one car-less day would cause hardship so they could perhaps be ok with having their electricity switched off for a period of days instead.
In times of catastrophe, everyone must share in some level of doing without.
hero42 brought the term “miserable lifestyle” into the discussion.
Can you see the children of this generation and the next easily giving up their miserable lifestyle, their smart toys, the internet, their modes of transport and their designer wardrobes for ‘the (catastrophe) cause’?
They can be all high and mighty in their ‘End the use of oil’ school strikes but when it comes to the crunch, it’ll be “No way, we didn’t mean that or that or that”.
How could one define “miserable lifestyle” I wonder?
We could consider having a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is really miserable and 10 is not at all miserable.
I’ve considered all aspects of my lifestyle from growing up, to school, to work, to having a family, to retirement. Each one I gave a score and overall I scored a 6.
When I look around nowadays, I see kids scoring much higher than me up until leaving school/home. With fewer work prospects which should mean not having families and on to retirement with quite likely no govt super, that period would score quite low. But the overall score could be about the same as mine.
As for condemning a future generation, the ones before mine didn’t do me any favours. There were no cars/phone/tv/internet/smart devices when I was born. Electricity blackouts were very common too.
To a large extent life is what the individual makes of it. Had I been able to ‘re-live’ parts of my overall lifestyle, I may have ended up with a score of higher than 6, but who knows, changes might have made it end up being lower than 6 too.
Halcyon, I admire the life choices you’re making.
The house we’re in is a basic two bedroom 1970’s style box in which the ceiling is also the roof which isn’t ideal in winter as we’re heating up a much larger air space but in saying that much less materials were required to build the structure. But because we have full insulation and a heatpump, the winter heating bill isn’t expensive. In summer the high ceiling is a bonus.
One has to offer some sympathy, for you and your wife that is on the ‘grandchildren’.
Ours live approximately a five hours drive away. If ours also bought into the climate change crisis, I’d be informing them we can never go see them ever again as that would involve using the dreadful oil to get there and back.
I dare say however, if you or I discussed that aspect with them, they might relent a bit and say ” no way, we didn’t mean to go that far” to which I’d respond “Well you’ve made your bed etc.. and you can’t have your cake etc.”
No doubt when your grandchildren are older and working etc, they won’t be flying over to see you or going on the big OE to Europe.
Have to admire people who stick to their guns.
It’s OK if you disagree with me. I can’t force you to be right.#1742849BryanMemberMember since: October 28, 2006
Replies: 12529Bryan February 16, 2020 at 10:41 am
My word Robo you must have plenty of time to sit and think and type all this or do you use the “Dictation” app?’cos I sure don’t have time to sit and read all this on a Sunday Morning. Even as a retired person.
IF you want people to read your posts I suggest you condense it a little then people are more likely to read it and take note!!
Give it a try. at least I’m more likely to spend time reading it. I’m n to sitting through the above post though!
At Home, At Peace and Causing Trouble In South Taranaki#1742850totaraMemberMember since: November 29, 2007
Replies: 562totara February 16, 2020 at 10:48 am
None of these remedies would be necessary if there were less people. My solution is to reduce the size of families. If the corona virus killed a billion people it would only make a small dent in the human population.
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