To take one embryo out of its home[womb],to place into another womb, is abortion,is it not OJ.You have deprived that embryo of its mother.

An abortion is when an embryo is surgically removed from the womb and discarded. It cannot be transferred. A spontaneous abortion is a miscarriage.

Gidday

Thanks for telling me that they had gotten back to topic mate.

To start with,

"Embryo transfer refers to a step in the process of assisted reproduction in which embryos are placed into the uterus of a female with the intent to establish a pregnancy. This technique (which is often used in connection with in vitro fertilization (IVF)), may be used in humans or in animals, in which situations the goals may vary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo_transfer"

************************************************

"I think Mona may be right,in that removing an embryo from a womb is a type of abortion,though it remains intact."

An abortion is where an embryo is taken from a womb and discarded. If it is transplanted into another recipient then surely that would be an adoption, just a bit earlier than normal though.

"And I'm not sure OJ,that it follows that if an embryo is moved from one womb to another,that would automatically mean that an abortion would then take place - surely,the reason for such a thing would be because the person it was transplanted into wanted to become pregnant?"

I couldn't agree more.

My reason for starting this thread was to show that beautiful show of how wonderful life is and how amazing reproduction is. The heading, "Human or just a bit of tissue" puts the question that surely when the human seed is fertilized and forms a new DNA it must surely be a new human and not just a bit of "human" tissue.

"there's an enormous difference between a one month old baby & an embryo or foetus. The baby at one month is far more developed,with functioning lungs etc. whereas an embryo/foetus removed in early stage abortion will not have anything like the same development."

But a one month old baby cannot survive on it's own, even if it is more developed. The human young are the most useless of all young in creation because they cannot do a thing for themselves.

Tonight on the Sunday program it showed babies as young as only two months from conception being born. Now I am not a fan for keeping any life going artificially just for the sake of it, and that I hope includes my own, but I am absolutely opposed to they uneccessary taking of any human life because it is just so precious as those who saw the video in my first post will testify I am sure.

Tonight on the Sunday program it showed babies as young as only two months from conception being born.

Those babies were 23 weeks OJ....5.5 months from conception if my maths are right.

"The heading, "Human or just a bit of tissue" puts the question that surely when the human seed is fertilized and forms a new DNA it must surely be a new human and not just a bit of "human" tissue."


As I said earlier - if the tissue was taken from say,a dog,then the tissue would be canine,while tissue taken from a human is naturally,human.


"But a one month old baby cannot survive on it's own, even if it is more developed. "

And that's the point;that it can survive when its needs are met e.g.food nappy change etc. & that's because at one month a baby has developed lung function nervous system etc. while an early stage embryo has not.



"Tonight on the Sunday program it showed babies as young as only two months from conception being born."


"Those babies were 23 weeks OJ....5.5 months if my maths from conception if my maths are right."

SF is correct,they were 23 weeks,not 8. And even then,the chance of survival is slim with only 9 out of 100 surviving - & of those,just one will ever be able to live a normal life.

Ya Just Cant Make up stuff like this !!
In Arizona, women are now legally pregnant two weeks before conception, according to a new law, the Orwellianly-named, “Women’s Health and Safety Act,” signed yesterday by Republican Governor Jan Brewer. The scientifically, medically, ethically, and intellectually dishonest legislation is designed to reduce the amount of time a woman is allowed to have a legal abortion, and is one of the most draconian bills to become law in America.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/pre...4/13/37993

I just followed your link, Ocker. Plenty there to get people going, I reckon...

One comment from 5 made on the subject you've brought into the conversation - C&P follows:-

"Silly sinners; real Christians know that life begins at ovulation. When a woman ovulates, she is commanded by God to attempt to become pregnant. God weeps salty tears when an ovum is wasted.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

That was God speaking. Listen up missy."

I don't believe i'll comment further at this stage but wait to see if someone else does.

hahahahahaha

This is just Jeremiah being told that before he was born on earth he was a spirit person. William Wordsworth talks of this in his poem Ode: Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood verse V. It is a lovely poem.

Nothing to get hysterical over. Some believe that we were made in Spirit before being born in the flesh on earth. No different a concept than the one which believes there are aliens out there in space.

Things in the US seem to be going from bad to worse for women. If it continues,I wonder if we'll see a mass exit of women from those states enacting these anti women,draconian laws?


“My heart goes out to the families that will be impacted,” Steinberg said. “Women are being forced to carry children that they know will end up dying within hours of birth.”



""Silly sinners; real Christians know that life begins at ovulation. When a woman ovulates, she is commanded by God to attempt to become pregnant. God weeps salty tears when an ovum is wasted.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

That was God speaking. Listen up missy."



I think that quote reveals much about the mindset of those seeking these kinds of punitive laws. They're usually right wing,conservative fundamentalists who actually believe that they have the right to dictate to anyone not sharing those beliefs.
They're misogynistic,believing in the male superiority outlined in their bible - 'listen up missy' indicates a paternalistic,superior attitude.

If this nonsense spreads throughout the US,then who knows,we may see a mass migration of women refugees to NZ. Though of course,poor women will be stuck with it.

We have enough refugee women in Nz, Belladonna crowding out the refuges from their bashing partners. Nothing to do with religion I know, but couldn't resist.

I think they've all taken leave of their senses in the US.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/12/1082261/-Tennessee-senate-warns-hand-holding-is-a-gateway-sexual-activity-

C&P
"Tennessee senators approved an update to the state's abstinence-based sex education law that includes warnings against "gateway sexual activity."

In a new family life instructions bill, holding hands and kissing could be considered gateways to sex.

Oh, but that's not all! No, there's much, much more.

The bill prohibits teachers from demonstrating gateway sexual activity. CaPese said that would include health education models.

So not only is hand-holding a gateway to sexytimes, but the Tennessee State Senate, having exhausted all other possible things to give a damn about in their state, is making darn sure that your teacher can't demonstrate hand-holding in the classroom, while saying "see? Don't do this." Also out: winking, wearing short sleeves, any shoes not issued by the U.S. Army, and giving other children those horrible, chalky Valentine's Day candies with vapid little sayings on them. I don't know how many of our nation's children have gotten laid as a result of exchanging those wretched, inedible things, but that's not a risk good conservative Republicans can be taking anymore.

So if your teacher teaches you anything about sex that isn't specifically on the approved curriculum, like demonstrating "holding hands" for the class instead of quietly tsking about the dangers it poses, they can be sued. Well there ya go then.

In related news, Tennessee high schoolers are above the national average when it comes to how many of them are having sex, so it seems this new anti-handholding agenda is coming along at just the right time. Or is much, much too late. Or is just stupid, and yet another demonstration of what bored old cranks think is best for the young 'uns these days, and actual real-world results be damned."

They're usually right wing,conservative fundamentalists who actually believe that they have the right to dictate to anyone not sharing those beliefs.

I think you left out the word MALE Belladonna...and I think there may be one or two males on this forum that go along with that