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The Rise And Fall Of The Greens

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This topic contains 162 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Hero42 Hero42 > 7 days ago.

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  • #1645083
    Profile photo of drlivingstone
    drlivingstone
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    Member since: October 22, 2006
    Topics: 289
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    dr-who  That there are  disciples of Whaleblubber  who quote his every word even  given his dirty politics  history is a sad reflection of politics today  .Whaleoils latest  impending defamation case in front of a jury  will be watched with interest.

    Dr.Livingstone
    Peoples Republic Of Christchurch

    #1645116
    Profile photo of lilith7
    lilith7
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    Member since: April 9, 2017
    Topics: 1
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    The possibility of re entering Pike river mine is on the cards again, & it seems govt is almost alone in not being in favour of it.

     

    And things are looking interesting for whale oil & co,as well.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/10/04/51558/whaleoil-ex-mp-pr-man-to-face-jury-trial

    “Controversial blogger Cameron Slater, public relations man Carrick Graham and former MP Katherine Rich have failed in a court bid to knock out a defamation claim by three health experts.

    The High Court would not strike out the case, which was prompted by revelations in the 2014 book Dirty Politics, and said the defamation action could yet proceed to a jury trial.

    Slater, founder of the Whaleoil blog, is accused by Dr Doug Sellman and two other health academics Boyd Swinburn and Shane Bradbrook, of defaming them in a series of posts on his site.

    They allege Graham, son of the former National cabinet minister Sir Douglas Graham, arranged for the posts to be published on the Whaleoil site for a fee and was in turn paid by the ex-National MP Rich through her employer the Food and Grocery Council, for having the pieces posted.

    The case claims Graham wrote one of the pieces himself, “authored, commissioned or procured Slater to publish the others and authored and published” comments made about the articles.

    Justice Matthew Palmer, who declined to strike out the case on the grounds of it being out of time, being the honestly-held opinion of the writer or as having qualified privilege as part of robust political debate about alcohol, sugar, fat and tobacco, suppressed the “alleged defamatory statements” until after a trial.

    But he said: “In general they are personally abusive about the plaintiffs as well as their positions on matters of public policy relating to the regulation of alcohol, tobacco, sugar and fat.

    Sellman is a Professor of Medicine and director of the National Addiction Centre at the University of Otago; Swinburn is a Professor of Population Nutrition and Global Health at the University of Auckland and Bradbrook is a senior public health advisor at Regional Public Health.

    They argued the blogger, PR man and industry chief were “predominantly motivated by ill-will” towards the academics.”

     

     

    #1645117
    Profile photo of doogie
    doogie
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    Member since: March 27, 2006
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    lilith7

    The possibility of re entering Pike river mine is on the cards again, & it seems govt is almost alone in not being in favour of it.

    #1645123
    Profile photo of doogie
    doogie
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    lilith7

    You say……

    The possibility of re entering Pike river mine is on the cards again, & it seems govt is almost alone in not being in favour of it.

    Any party in opposition can say anything they like about re-entering the mine but government can not autherise entery without first ammending health and safety laws that remove liability should things go wrong. This would fly in the face of the laws that exist setting a hazardous precedence to these laws

    #1645126
    Profile photo of Hero42
    Hero42
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    Member since: July 18, 2008
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    Doogie
    Bill did soften his stance during the election that National would support reentering the mine if it was safe to do so.

    Of course that means they can always find an expert to say it isn’t.

    But if Winston makes this one of his negotiation bottom lines, and given he met with the families before he met with National, I suspect it will be then it will be interesting to see if National will be prepared to agree to change the law to allow entry.

    On the other hand if it is deemed safe to enter, and some experts say it is, then the company is compliant with the law already.

    Cheers 🙂

    #1645128
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    doogie
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    Hero42,

    It is noted you say some experts which infers some don’t. The laws as they stand would not exempt liability should something go wrong if this is the case

    #1645131
    Profile photo of Gigglebyte
    Gigglebyte
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    Member since: May 28, 2009
    Topics: 35
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    Although Pike River is one highly volatile issue among many, the national party has got New Zealand into such a state that basic issues have to be dealt with first.So first priority issues have to be unemployment , homelessness, health (including mental health) poverty,education and how we treat one another.
    The Greens were keen to get in there and do something,but they made one huge mistake.Or rather Metiria did.She made an announcement during election year,admitting something that she’d done while on the benefit in order to make ends meet.Income not declared to WINZ.,instead of gaining votes for the party, she lost some.Her timing was absolutely terrible and proved disastrous not only for her,but for the Green Party itself.Had she admitted to it earlier, she would have gained faithful followers.In election year,she was simply giving her detractors ammunition.Some Green mps resigned in solidarity with her when she resigned.It looked like rats leaving a sinking ship.In a non-election year it would have come over as noble,a sign that the green party was strong,stable and standing by principles. Sigh! Unfortunately, that where politics is concerned ,appearances do count,and impressions are important.
    So as far as forming a government is concerned,unless you can stomach National(Yuck!)that leaves you with Labour and New Zealand First. Labour would struggle to form a government alone.Labour has the political nous to get somewhere.The effect made by the New Labour Leader,Jacinda Ardern, has proved that.Most people could not take over the leadership of a party as successfully as she has done. People are behind her more strongly than they ever were behind Andrew Little.Under her leadership ,Labour has a much better chance than it ever did under Andrew Little.
    That leaves New Zealand First. Their policies sound good, but can their leader,Winston Peters ,be trusted?He seems to me to be a slippery character.Will he be likely to compromise on certain policies in order to hold power?
    Back to the Greens ,whose foolishness and naivete has been it’s undoing.Like the rest of us, the Greens will have to wait for the special votes to have been counted.

    #1645133
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    Hero42
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    Doogie
    It would make an interesting legal case if a company defended its actions by producing experts that said the procedure was safe before they undertook it and therefore it was an unfortunate unforeseen accident.

    Worksafe would no doubt produce their expert saying it wasn’t safe so it would be up to the courts to make a decision which would further refine the law as it currently stands.

    The Act states:
    A duty imposed on a person by or under this Act requires the person—
    (a) to eliminate risks to health and safety, so far as is reasonably practicable; and
    (b) if it is not reasonably practicable to eliminate risks to health and safety, to minimise those risks so far as is reasonably practicable.

    Now the question is would getting an expert opinion that said it was safe address the requirement to minimise the risk as far as reasonably practicable?

    The first case under the current law was against the school that used real razors in the play Sweeney Todd but didn’t cover the blade properly and two students got life threatening cuts to the neck.

    Details of the throat slash injuries suffered by two Auckland schoolboys during a production of Sweeney Todd, along with other close shaves and injuries in dress rehearsals, emerged in a damning WorkSafe report that found the show had “potential for death”.

    WorkSafe’s report into the incident, obtained by the Herald under the Official Information Act, recommended that the school be prosecuted over the incident.

    But despite the decision being backed by the victims’ families and signed off by the report writer’s manager and chief inspector, WorkSafe decided against the prosecution.

    Makes you wonder if there was a reentry to the mine and an accident occurred despite the best plans to minimise the risk would a prosecution be brought?

    Cheers 🙂

    #1645277
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    lilith7
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    Member since: April 9, 2017
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    Once again,the families of Pike river have experts who say it is safe to enter the mine, &  who are willing to take the risk.

    There will almost always be differences of opinions among experts whatever the subject. Understandably,these families prefer the view of their own experts to that of govt experts.

     

    #1645279
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    drlivingstone
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    Member since: October 22, 2006
    Topics: 289
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    The National government have never  had the will to support Pike River families.They supported the management right from start when John Keys hollow words echoed “I will bring those men home”

    Dr.Livingstone
    Peoples Republic Of Christchurch

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