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The "Causes" of escalating Poverty in NZ

Discussions News & Current Affairs (excluding Politics) The "Causes" of escalating Poverty in NZ

This topic contains 252 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of drlivingstone drlivingstone 13 hours, 8 minutes ago.

Viewing 10 posts - 221 through 230 (of 253 total)
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  • #1654172
    Profile photo of Hero42
    Hero42
    Member
    Member since: July 18, 2008
    Topics: 61
    Replies: 10708

    Halycon
    How did you get to see returns to the IRD? Those should be confidential.

    Did these returns explain where the money was and what it would be used for?

    Cheers 🙂

    #1654227
    Profile photo of jens
    jens
    Member
    Member since: May 3, 2006
    Topics: 22
    Replies: 6993

    Well yes, critic –

    users  have  always  paid  for  costly water  piped in from somewhere –  but there is a  difference  between  user  pays for water at a price which is potentially  subsidized due  to political pressure for  cheaper  water,  or pays  the  full market price  which includes a  margin of  profit  to  “keep the  show  sustainable”  without  the danger  of subsidies  from other  areas creeping in to help  keeping its price  down – which  may  encourage the  unprofitably wasteful  usage of it – and  become  a more widening (escalating?)  cause of  poverty  than what a profitably reliable water delivery  price is to  a prudent water  consumer.

    I understand Labour under Michael Savage did  not  carry on with its bread  price  subsidies  for  long, but a  stronger  example in a country with much more poverty and  shortages  – the Soviet  Union  after  WW2 –  also  eliminated  its cheap bread policy  when noticing it  was  used  for  overcoming  shortages in  animal fodder.

    They did not have any direct profitability based market  sensors at  all, with the result  of permanent poverty for most  but not all –  the reverse of  our situation of  prosperity for  most  but not all – so far.

    Our  water delivery  has not been organized on a co-operative  ownership basis,  but  by entrusting govt. and local bodies to  organize it the best  way  they can think of –

    and  is it not economically (and politically!?) less  troublesome to have  an independent  corporation  in charge  of  it ?

    #1654235
    Profile photo of Critic
    Critic
    Member
    Member since: June 6, 2011
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 696

    Well yes, critic –

    users have always paid for costly water piped in from somewhere – but there is a difference between user pays for water at a price which is potentially subsidized due to political pressure for cheaper water, or pays the full market price which includes a margin of profit to “keep the show sustainable” without the danger of subsidies from other areas creeping in to help keeping its price down

    You are moving into fairy land with that jens… We the ratepayers funded the treatment and catchment of water from scratch, the equipment is in place payed for … now why would we need to or want to pay commercial prices to use our investments? you aren’t a little simple are you jens?
    Quite apart from the fact that our investments have been laundered to become the property of some parentless yet (presumed to be) legal identity- all achieved by those serving in fiduciary relationships who don’t give a big rats arse about the laws (not unlike yourself and a few other politically blinded individuals)
    Had you cared a tad about the the laws you wouldn’t try so hard to whitewash that which the Crimes Act 1961 defines as being a serious offence (not to sum tho eh)

    You reckoning that we should pay more than the costs of operating and maintaining our investments so we don’t need to be subsidized by who? our investments subsidised by who? (please be plausible) … and
    Why as that has never happened “ever” for the likes of water would you want to throw that in there other than to distract attention away from the fact that your ignorance of the law has evolved to an ignorance toward simple accounting principles or gaining a fundamental understanding of just what a fiduciary relationship/duty is or what is reasonable/plausible.

    Our water delivery has not been organized on a co-operative ownership basis, but by entrusting govt. and local bodies to organize it the best way they can think of –

    You need to elaborate on where you got your information from jens… try to remember not so long ago when the rates demand included a list of the loans which the ratepayers were paying off and then think a little bit about just who was funding the regional infrastructure.

    Would it not seem reasonable that if one is helping to pay off a loan then one has interests in the loans providence?

    Again keeping in mind “fiduciary relationship” and “fiduciary duty”

    and is it not economically (and politically!?) less troublesome to have an independent corporation in charge of it ?

    The question you seem to be asking me is ….. Does the economy (money) or politics (fiscal gangs) trump ….. Adherence to “Rule of Law” and my answer would have to be NO.. not on my watch (without a bit of curry)

    I agree that the council has made it clear that it is incapable or unwilling to remain a “Steward” lawfully and would now rather choose to be a “Proprietor” unlawfully..
    So it might well be wiser for the investors to consider another type of structure ….. probably an employment trust or similar would be the most practical and serve the community wiser than screwing them for an easy buck when they only wanted the likes of a drink of clean water

    #1654261
    Profile photo of halcyon
    halcyon
    Member
    Member since: May 4, 2014
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 3842

    Hero, like all charitable organisations, that are registered under the Charities Act,  unions are required to make a financial return within six months of their end of financial year. These returns are posted on the Charities website. As these organisations do not pay tax it is only fair that the taxpayers are able to monitor their financial status.

    I have worked as treasurer for a couple of charitable organisations over the years and have been responsible for preparing these reports. This is how I found out about the union’s returns.

    Go to the Charities website and if you know the name of the organisation, has to a registered charity, you can access their financial returns and also a list of all Trustees and Officers.

    PS.   My apologies Hero. I have just re-read what I wrote in the previous post. I should have said Charities Commission not IRD. Charities do not need to file tax returns for income as they do not have to pay income tax. The financial report is the same except  for the tax calculations and where the return is sent.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Profile photo of halcyon halcyon. Reason: Add PS
    #1654271
    Profile photo of Critic
    Critic
    Member
    Member since: June 6, 2011
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 696

    So you now believe charities that have money over at the end of the year are the cause of escalating poverty?

    Could you explain that in context?
    🙂

    #1654288
    Profile photo of halcyon
    halcyon
    Member
    Member since: May 4, 2014
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 3842

    Critic, I was answering a question asked by Hero. I do not know where you are coming from with your question otherwise I would do my best to answer it as well.

     

    #1654369
    Profile photo of halcyon
    halcyon
    Member
    Member since: May 4, 2014
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 3842

    According to an article in Newhub this morning:

    “Kaitaia GP and 2014 New Zealander of the Year Dr Lance O’Sullivan says while her words are encouraging, brave and bold actions are needed.

    In the year to June, pokie machines in the Far North District brought in $13.95 million. That’s up nearly $800,000 on the previous year, when they pulled in $13.2 million.

    “There are some real quick wins that could be achieved here – removing pokies out of communities such as Kaitaia  putting $14 million back into the hands and the mouths of families, that could be done with the stroke of a pen,” says Dr O’Sullivan.

    “Yes, there are a whole lot of big policy issues and intergenerational problems from poverty, but this is something that could be done really quickly that will actually save the lives of children living in poverty.”

    If Labour is serious about reducing poverty then they need to heed his call.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Profile photo of halcyon halcyon. Reason: repair formatting
    #1654371
    Profile photo of halcyon
    halcyon
    Member
    Member since: May 4, 2014
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 3842

    Further to the above post here is more from Dr O’Sullivan. Remember he is a person who has worked in the North for many years and his comments are based on his observations as a doctor.

    Moko Foundation founder Dr Lance O’Sullivan appeared on The Nation on Saturday and demanded action.
    He says the state needs to make radical changes to combat addictive activities.“Is there a link between pokie machines, alcohol outlets, cigarettes to the poverty that children in Kaitaia and communities like Kaitaia experience?” he asks.

    “And the answer is absolutely yes. There’s a very direct link between the people that are using or practising these lifestyles and the fact that children are going without food, kai, in the evenings.”

    Dr O’Sullivan says politicians’ failure to make tough decisions is destroying communities.“I see child poverty in Kaitaia and then I see policies that allow a proliferation of pokie machines that take probably $100 out of the households of these children per week and millions out of the far north community,” he says.”

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Profile photo of halcyon halcyon. Reason: reset formatting
    #1654373
    Profile photo of drlivingstone
    drlivingstone
    Member
    Member since: October 22, 2006
    Topics: 295
    Replies: 34112

    I have just been watching on Facebook The AGM of Woolworths in Australia who are the biggest Pokie machine operators and A campaign to get the election of The Board of Directors to focus on Pokie Machine harm.I am totally with Dr.Lance O,Sullivan on this issue.It is interesting from Australian research that the biggest concentrations of pokie machines produce more family violence. I will look further into the work of Dr.Susan Rennie to see if they elected her to The Woolworths Board and for research around Young men on low incomes biggest users of pokie machines story.And who increased SKYCitys pokie machines?

    Dr.Livingstone
    Peoples Republic Of Christchurch

    #1654382
    Profile photo of Critic
    Critic
    Member
    Member since: June 6, 2011
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 696

    Perhaps they could use the same method used to eliminate smoking… “put the price up” … it works well to discourage folk from smoking when 50 grams cost bloody near $100….Yep it wouldn’t cost them a cent to either push up the price of gambling or simply change the odds.

    Of course when the “Cost of Living” goes up that doesn’t seem to put people off living they just move one step closer to living in poverty and so we can examine or take advantage of all their little flaws easier….

    Like- because a drowning man would reach for a straw- these one arm bandits are moved into poorer areas to prey on the vulnerable…. CAPITALISM AT ITS BEST. +GST

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