Login/Join to access your personalised dashboard now! Returning user? Log in or Register
Log in to your GrownUps

The "Causes" of escalating Poverty in NZ

Discussions News & Current Affairs (excluding Politics) The "Causes" of escalating Poverty in NZ

This topic contains 252 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of drlivingstone drlivingstone 13 hours, 10 minutes ago.

Viewing 10 posts - 191 through 200 (of 253 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1653032
    Profile photo of jens
    jens
    Member
    Member since: May 3, 2006
    Topics: 22
    Replies: 6993

    Critic – at¬† last –¬† by you openly admitting , that¬† savings create wealth ownership I (and huiatahi?)¬† feel rewarded for the repetitive effort¬† ¬†through¬† the evidence¬† a child¬† can understand-

    even though  you might  have  known it  before,  but  for  whatever  reason  did  not  want  that  to be known.

    Again – as being explained¬† to students¬† just out of¬† childhood¬† –¬† money¬† serves as a token of¬† value, a medium of¬† exchange, and a store of¬† value as¬† long as it retains¬† its credibility as a relatively stable token of value.

    I don’t think anyone expects money¬† to create¬† anything, but the¬† value¬† and wealth it¬† represents and is exchanged¬† for¬† values in kind¬† services¬† from¬† other¬† people¬† gives power to its owner to¬† own or¬† create anything possible, e.g. even a single¬† person¬† has the¬† ability¬† to get a¬† job¬† done¬† that is impossible¬† to be¬† done¬† alone.

    I also have to repeat,¬† that money¬† savings¬† create¬† wealth by being not¬† only just¬† hoarded,¬† but eventually spent on profitable and useful investments¬† and thus creating¬† income¬† for its owners -which¬† does not¬† happen¬† if the¬† value¬† received in money¬† is¬† consumed “hand-to-mouth”.

    The reading of  too many legalistic and ideological tomes does not alter  these economic  realities, and  might  only  confuse  a more  imagination  than  material, rational  evidence  based  mind.

    #1653041
    Profile photo of Critic
    Critic
    Member
    Member since: June 6, 2011
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 696

    The “Causes” of “escalating” Poverty in NZ is the title to this thread Jens

    The “Causes” of “escalating” Poverty in NZ is the title to this thread Jens

    The “Causes” of “escalating” Poverty in NZ is the title to this thread Jens

    The “Causes” of “escalating” Poverty in NZ is the title to this thread Jens

    The “Causes” of “escalating” Poverty in NZ is the title to this thread Jens

    ūüôā

    I understand you want to talk about how attractive and shiny Money is … but how about letting the grown ups chat for a while ūüôā

    #1653043
    Profile photo of huiatahi
    huiatahi
    Member
    Member since: March 22, 2017
    Topics: 0
    Replies: 307

    Don’t get the wrong idea Jens….this is the part of Critic’s post I was agreeing with……

    I would consider you to be slightly more rational if you were able to read others comments without putting your own interpretation on what they are saying (as you have displayed above) or if you could even read the reference material ‚Ķ but you don‚Äôt and you cant seem to read the title on the thread either because (it seems) like they all read ‚Äújens should talk about saving his shiny sixpence‚ÄĚ and ignore folk that ask him to stop repeating himself on every thread.<u></u>

    huiatahi

    #1653081
    Profile photo of jens
    jens
    Member
    Member since: May 3, 2006
    Topics: 22
    Replies: 6993

    But huiatahi  Рthis thread is  on the  causes of  escalating  poverty, and one of the most  widespread and  basic  causes is the reduced willingness and/or  ability  to save for  wealth  ownership  creation, with many not wanting  to be bothered  with this,  and believing like I thought  critic did, that it is  irrelevant, greedy  and perhaps even  harmful (as it  indeed  might  be, if massively  hoarded  out of  circulation).

    So with his¬† admission¬† that he did¬† know¬† about anti-poverty¬† wealth¬† creation¬† through saving and investment all the time,¬† he had¬† come¬† up publicly with the most¬† important revelation of this¬† thread, which is¬† so basic¬† that¬† reading everything¬† about the unlimited number of¬† side-issues¬† on this matter –

    an ordinary  person  will only get  confused  and  forget the basic  cause  of poverty, which is  -owning  nothing.   I just  could not  imagine  you  not joyfully agreeing  with  critic  on that.

    Even¬† low¬† wages¬† as a¬† cause¬† of¬† poverty¬† can only be overcome¬† by someone’s¬† savings for more¬† investment and demand for labour, or¬† for¬† just¬† more¬† handouts¬† to labour –¬† which will become¬† self-defeating¬† and¬† cause¬† more¬† poverty –

    from the  point  when the  handouts exceed  the  profits that  cannot be saved,  but have to  be donated  for  consumption on poverty alleviation.

    By what  means do you think  the causes of  poverty  (e.g. theft,  natural disasters, overpopulation, or your  special concern?) can be eliminated and  overcome, huiatahi ?

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by Profile photo of jens jens.
    #1653116
    Profile photo of Critic
    Critic
    Member
    Member since: June 6, 2011
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 696

    Jens this thread is not about the causes of poverty … it is about the causes of “escalating” poverty…

    Now the difference is that we are able to focus on a “current escalation” rather than what folk see to be general causes like your belief that those who are living in poverty should have saved up for it.

    Of course if you believe accumulating wealth or saving wealth is the cause of that escalation of poverty- that’s fine, you have expressed your belief and you might be lucky enough to find somebody that agrees with you…. So move on jens get over yourself.

    What about having another 100,000 or so new faces to feed, cloth, house, medicate etc each year over and above natural reproduction.
    Would you not consider the escalation of the numbers of immigrants taxing limited resources to result in some going without? or the need to squeeze more out of the ratepayers to upgrade infrastructure to suit the unnecessary influx would that not push rents up?

    Do you not see more than just “not saving” as being a cause of the recent escalations … what changed to cause the recent escalations?
    People living under bridges etc is really common in the Henderson Waitakere area more recently and you reckon its because these folk just needed to save money?.

    A single person would be lucky to rent a dilapidated caravan for $260 in this area and they would still need to purchase food etc on top of that yet the rent is more than the unemployment benefit and you sit there chanting/preaching? “save your money and you will be saved” like some crazed religious zealot –

    It is very hard to take anything you say seriously even if you repeat it repeat it repeat it jens because you have stopped making cents (escalating)
    ūüôā

    #1653123
    Profile photo of jens
    jens
    Member
    Member since: May 3, 2006
    Topics: 22
    Replies: 6993

    Yes critic –¬† if a widening proportion of people¬† are unwilling or unable to save, then is that¬† not clear evidence of¬† widening or escalating¬† poverty at the¬† (current)¬† time it is happening ?

    And – with everything else¬† equal, is it not¬† clear that¬† if a person currently “under a¬† bridge”¬† would¬† be better¬† off¬† if¬† he/she¬† had saved¬† more¬† for some emergency reserves¬† from the¬† time of starting to earn an income¬† –¬† or had inherited¬† some of the savings¬† of¬† ¬†parents or¬† relatives¬† who owned¬† savings, i.e. capital?

    #1653145
    Profile photo of Critic
    Critic
    Member
    Member since: June 6, 2011
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 696

    Right so you reckon the cause of escalating poverty is simply more people not saving up their money and that¬īs it.

    Why would that take you more than one sentence to express?

    I disagree with you (of course) partly because you are not looking at the bigger picture or considering the ¬®”Cost of Living” or any other factor to have an influence (even if they had saved).

    Have you considered having a chat to any of these folk to see if they could verify your assertions … do you even get out much to see the changing nature of the city you live in?

    If I was on a low or fixed income and I had savings I admired as much as you but needed to rent in Auckland – living under a bridge would be the best option because I would have reduced my cost of living to a more affordable level and I would only require food and warm clothing to sustain myself…

    yep I could then save more than a thousand dollars a week/month (just to keep up with the rising prices of housing in the area and perhaps another) thousand a week towards a deposit… Sounds really easy if you say it fast eh (and forget I said I was on a low or fixed income)

    Or I could just sit there admiring my bank account and argue with anyone that reckons I am living in poverty because I have got money in the bank which must mean I am not living in poverty… All sound really rational jens (not)
    ūüôā

    #1653151
    Profile photo of drlivingstone
    drlivingstone
    Member
    Member since: October 22, 2006
    Topics: 295
    Replies: 34112

    It has been proved that austerity¬† has affected the worse off the vulnerable and the disadvantaged¬† unfairly.and in turn is¬† a cause of escalating poverty. In the UK¬† academics¬† released research establishing austerity can be linked to 120,000 extra deaths between 2010 and 2017 with cuts to NHS and social care dubbed “economic murder” Meanwhile while 4000 children prepare to be left¬† with no money over Christmas¬†¬† because of the rollout of universal credit,The Trusell Trust¬† estimates that food banks will need an extra 2000 tonnes of food because of the hunger this will cause.Its happening in UK Austerity eh No fairness there then.Same in Aotearoa N.Z!

    Dr.Livingstone
    Peoples Republic Of Christchurch

    #1653152
    Profile photo of stillraging
    stillraging
    Member
    Member since: August 26, 2010
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 153

    Agree Dr L, my heart goes out to the low income families and their children that will not enjoy an Xmas like most of us are used to. The food banks here will step in but will not be enough to go around everyone. There is more and more poverty creeping up around us all the time and my heart goes out to those families. Escalating food and housing costs going up all the time but wages not going up with them. My sister lives up in Auckland and she says the rental and housing prices are terrifying.

    #1653155
    Profile photo of jens
    jens
    Member
    Member since: May 3, 2006
    Topics: 22
    Replies: 6993

    Critic Рon the causes of  poverty escalation  I am looking  at the  biggest  picture  possible,  which  beside  uncountable other  causes includes  also  an escalating cost of living.

    Why should  someone on  the verge  of  poverty want to  come or  stay in Auckland ? One of my  well earning  grandsons has  moved to Dunedin, partly because there are  at present most houses for  sale under $400 000.

    I know several  rational people   who have sold their houses in Auckland and bought  cheaper  ones in smaller  towns  with over $100 000 .- left to spare for  a  poverty-less  life. Perhaps some poor migrate  to Auckland where  there are more opportunities  for begging ?

    And Dr. Livingstone Рof  course  the  austerity  to save hits  hardest the  ones  who  in NZ could perhaps  save only a  few  cents or  dollars, which would not take them very far even over a  long  time.

    But  in the  spirit  of egalitarian and brotherly  democracy, with higher income  earners also participating  in the  effort  to  raise the   national  wealth ownership savings and investment  rate, it will increasingly  help the poorest to  get out of poverty through more  jobs at  higher  earning  rates, and the  sustainability of our NZ Super  from   age  65.

    The  few cents(?)  from their GST  accountable for their  contributions to the NZ Super Fund  were hardly noticed  by them.

    You are free  to believe  what  you think is  right, so let us  know  what or if you got  anything to grumble  against that, Dr. Livingstone?

    Would you rather  see  GST  reduced than resume  contributions to the NZ Super Fund ?

     

Viewing 10 posts - 191 through 200 (of 253 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Advertisement
 
Join Free.  Register for newsletter updates & complete your membership for full site access.  Welcome & Enjoy!
Terms
 
GrownUps

GrownUps, New Zealand’s best lifestyle website, social club & brain training hub for 50+.

Join 120,000 GrownUps for Free. Register now to receive our regular email newsletters to keep you up to date & complete your membership to access all areas of the site.  We can’t wait to meet you.

Enjoy!

 


Terms