This topic contains 585 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by drlivingstone > 7 days ago.
- #1636319doogie August 13, 2017 at 6:10 am
No arandar, what is happening in this political correct degradation of standards is that along with you, others in this discussion support the attitude that “Whatever I do is none of your business but what you compensate me for my folly is not enough to look after me and my baby” This is very much a one way street, Don’t you think that those that carry the can have a right to comment? Silly question, I know you don’t. Stifling all comment such as mine does nothing to heighten awareness of later consequences that can be avoided.
Thank you for bestowing me the power to act on the answers, I’m flattered.#1636328arandarMemberMember since: November 23, 2009
Replies: 10364arandar August 13, 2017 at 8:37 am
I do most strongly believe in your right to comment as much as I believe in my own.
The can you help the rest of us carry is tiny. Far less than the universal Super can we all help to carry.
I said your question was stupid, because knowing how a solo Parent and child arrived at the point of single parenthood does not resolve that situation – as I said above. Was I not clear enough?
Surely my follow up question made my point clear? Let me make it clearer.
Knowing that some single parents have been foolish, drunk or drugged, promiscuous, raped, deceived, betrayed, deserted, widowed, abused, become unemployed, doesn’t mean they don’t have children to raise.
Are you saying we should help support the children of only deserving parents? Let the children of undeserving parents exist in utter poverty?
Apply a morals test for entitlement?
I say no.
Perhaps instead we should let the undeserving aged exist in utter penury? It would save
Let their families support them or let them change their ways. Give up the beer and fags and sessions at the RSA and the bowling club, frittering away the tax payers’ largesse. Holidays overseas. Visits to and from family. Shocking wasteful behaviour. And no more expensive health cares for the undeserving aged. No more gold cards, rates rebates, cheaper dog registrations.
Some old folks have a strangely prurient interest in the sex lives of the active and fertile young.
But please understand Doogie, far from trying to silence you, I’m asking you to further explain your point of view.
Replies: 159Anonymous August 13, 2017 at 8:59 am
Thank you Doogie – re 1636319 – there is the answer on why many people, who pm me, on why they don’t come back. I’m not blaming you Arandar. One only has to see the vengeance on how Hero replies, for one.#1636330paulinemMemberMember since: July 8, 2006
Replies: 561paulinem August 13, 2017 at 9:03 am
Doogie some of your posts have really annoyed me ie the ones that you went on and on about Metiria. especially when there have been several similar reported rippoffs/abuses by other politicians including the double dipper Bill English. At which very few of them, were forced out of parliament for their bad behavior. But I can understand the annoyance at those beneficiaries whom do deliberately abuse our benevolent system. But Aranda is right when it comes to well being of the children their needs are first to be considered despite the abuse as the children concieved ( regardless of parentage etc }in our nation I see are a gift to the nation and are our future need to be looked after .
I ask Doogie do you also feel the same anger and self righteousness at the ridiculously over paid CEOs of both private and pubic owned companies. I sent in a clip that at least three of our nations CEOs are claiming over EIGHT MILLION per ANNUM in salary. Most or perhaps many of our top management claim over a million in salary. I don’t believe any one is worth such ridiculously high salaries. Lets not forget all costs including wages to a company are tax deductible expenses. So in other words to pay these high wages we the taxpayers are missing out on tax that the company would have been expected to have been paid to our taxation system. Tax money which could be used to help pay for our appallingly underfunded health system, more police, build social need houses etc etc.#1636331doogie August 13, 2017 at 10:26 am
……But please understand Doogie, far from trying to silence you, I’m asking you to further explain your point of view.
Can I respectfully point out you have jumped a Taranaki gate, in fact two, into areas I haven’t broached. You being from the Taranaki will know there are hazards these gates present if you attemted to jump them.
Paddock one; Much of your arguement is based on exceptions which I have mentioned but more than that, non related areas of the topic
Paddock two; I have in no way stepped into the area of post pregnancy other than saying this “Questions should be asked how they got themselves into the posistion they find themselves in”
Did you never ask your children that when they did something silly#1636334gabyoneMemberMember since: November 13, 2008
Replies: 2518gabyone August 13, 2017 at 10:36 am
Some great points made on here. I do notice that most of those who bash ALL beneficiaries ignore that National Super is a benefit. And before everyone rushes at me with the ” but we paid for our super” I remind you that many beneficiaries have been taxpayers prior to needing a benefit.
Also the real elephant in the room is unfair tax system that allows some to evade paying their fair dues. Beneficiary fraud is tiny compared to tax evasion or tax avoidance.
Gabyone Auckland region#1636335lilith7MemberMember since: April 9, 2017
Replies: 1412lilith7 August 13, 2017 at 10:48 am
“Those that carry the can” would be taxpayers would they Doogie?
In which case,we’re all tax payers aren’t we – even those with children struggling on a benefit. And in most of those situations those people will have been in work prior to needing help – & paying taxes.
Those on what was the DPB are those most likely to also be doing part time work;that means those people pay even higher tax for that – secondary taxpayers.
Those on benefits with children also tend not to remain on benefits long term so if they’re able to find work,then they’re taxpayers too.
Therefore,”those that carry the can” are taxpayers – exactly as are those needing help.
And no one is ‘stifling your comments’ – exchanging our views is what discussion is.
“Questions should be asked how they got themselves into the posistion they find themselves in”
Did you never ask your children that when they did something silly”
Did you never do anything silly,in your entire life? Especially when young & stupid?
And I’m struggling to understand just why you think you need to know how someone arrived in their situation – are you saying that only those you see as ‘worthy ‘ or ‘virtuous’ should receive help?
Because that is what it seems you’re saying. And if so, it raises the question of what would you want to happen to those you deem ‘unworthy’ or not quite ‘virtuous’ enough?
Should those people (mostly women) be left to survive as best they can with their child/ren? Should their child/ren be forcibly removed from them? Put into orphanages,perhaps?
Arandar raised an excellent point with regard to our age group – should superannuitants be viewed in the same prurient way?
No pension if they’re out there gaily frittering away their money on drink or casinos – or,having sexual relationships with someone they’re not married to?
Should the rest of society start sneering & looking down its nose at those on pensions now – after all,they might not be altogether virtuous,eh?#1636336lilith7MemberMember since: April 9, 2017
Replies: 1412lilith7 August 13, 2017 at 10:53 am
“Probably there’s a lot of middle class New Zealand that doesn’t see poverty. They are blind-sided by not being able to see or understand. It’s steeped in racism as well.”
The Morgan Foundation researcher Dr Jess Berenton-Shaw has said the “bad, undeserving parent myth” causes trouble because people want to help children, not their families.
It was far easier and lazier to play the blame game.
“It’s easy to point the finger,” O’Brien said.
“In some ways at the risk of being simplistic it’s easier to blame parents rather than doing something about the social and economic setting.”#1636339doogie August 13, 2017 at 11:36 am
You aso are jumping over a Taranaki gate into an area out of context of the topic#1636341AnonymousMember since:
Replies: 159Anonymous August 13, 2017 at 11:43 am
Whether you like it or not, its the way the you’re bought your children up. One only has to see the Cafe in ChCh on Stuff the other day with some “mothers group” in a cafe. getting all indignant an think they were expressing their “rights”! Give me a break! Open your own house up between each other and enjoy between yourselves and kids.
I sure hope that Cafe has made a killing!
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