- October 12, 2017 at 9:13 am #1646025
doogieMemberMember since: March 27, 2006
That is a question that these poeple will never address.October 12, 2017 at 9:35 am #1646028
halcyonMemberMember since: May 4, 2014
Doc, I agree totally. But to take “ the populace with us” will take more than just throwing money at the problem. If it was a case of just economics then it makes sense to invest now to make future savings.
And I agree “Children who are maltreated are more likely to have poor mental health into the future“. One of the dilemmas facing CYF (or new name) Social Workers is the abuse of removing children at risk from abusive homes. The guiding principal is which choice is the less abusive. Several Social Workers I have discussed this issue with favour bringing someone into the home to monitor the parental behaviour and to educate the parents. This would be a good starting place. But it will need acceptance ‘outside the box’ . I will be interested in the reaction this post brings.
An additional idea would be managed accommodation where those who neglect their children to feed their addictions live, with their family in a communal environment where assistance is available and managed. (Yes, there are such rehabilitation centres now. But these require voluntary participation).
Therefore what I am suggesting is a multi-idea approach to poverty that is child focused.October 12, 2017 at 5:02 pm #1646122
paulinemMemberMember since: July 8, 2006
.. ne such women who works night takes the kids to school then goes to bed …but more and more she found it impossible to get up re depression as what she was earning she couldn’t pay her costs etc ..what gave her inspiration as one afternoon she heard from her bed chopping …. she went down to find a man chopping firewood for her … this sparked i can over come this…. This group has helped a lot of families get out of debt by negotiating and paying the debts gradually back. They do not help adults whom they ick have an addiction etc ..they ahve to be I can overcome this I can face my poverty problems etc …the group call for donations re presents for Christmas easter etc … ( they get heaps and heaps etc ) now the group is working on teaching the families that can how to put a veggie garden inOctober 12, 2017 at 7:59 pm #1646155
halcyon – since the primary cause of child poverty is parental poverty(?) – an exclusively child focused poverty alleviation program is not enough for poverty elimination, because it does not prevent continuation of of the parental poverty tradition.
Therefore, is not a universally all-inclusive effort needed, with non-evadable participation also by the inevitable and ever-present proportion of socially dysfunctionals, handicapped, and emotionally and ideologically opposed ?
Wouldn’t that fit in very well with the “multi-idea” approach on (child) poverty elimination ?October 12, 2017 at 8:04 pm #1646158
halcyonMemberMember since: May 4, 2014
Jens, no use asking me. The best idea is that you seek out those who live in poverty and ask them what they think of your idea. I think you will find a large gap between the philosophy and the praxis of your notion. I would suggest there is a parallel with asking a blind man to chose between two shade of pink for painting the wall.October 12, 2017 at 8:08 pm #1646160
arandarMemberMember since: November 23, 2009
Please don’t do that Doogie.
The ‘these people’ to whom you refer so disparagingly I know includes me.
Believe me, I’ve spent years helping families and individuals understand how to get control of their own finances.
I’ve tutored illiterate and enumerate adults. I’ve shown people how to understand a bank account, or a power account 🙄, read a contract and it’s fine print, work through the end cost of an HP agreement.
I know how the system works Doogie.
I know the system we have now ensures that the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, winners take almost all.
My experience may not be your, and my conclusions are quite obviously not yours.
Doesn’t mean mine are wrong.
OTOH,if Jens’s opinions and economic theories were valid they’d have been adopted by neoLib and conservative govts all around the world, wouldn’t they? And they haven’t. Anywhere.
🌊Arandar🏄🏽♀️October 12, 2017 at 9:25 pm #1646190
halcyon, your example of asking the blind to choose between 2 shades of pink does not apply to the case of asking the poor if they would prefer to remain in welfare alleviated poverty or become prosperous through their own participation in the effort, because the blind can not cure their blindness by that choice between 2 shades of pink, whereas even the unable have-nots can become haves with their voluntary or enforced participation in a universal systematic wealth ownership creative effort by and for all.
There is no theory nor ideology behind that, because it is a physical, tangible and measurable fact, that if you save reserves for security and useful investment or trading with what your neighbor has to offer you, increasing prosperity and welfare is normally inevitable – and that is the basis of whatever prosperity we have achieved so far.
Your and arandar’s views on the unenthusiastic views of many (most?) have-nots is proof of the need for a universal systematic effort with no possibility to evade or dodge the wealth ownership creative savings effort –
as has been done in Singapore, with “Third World” poverty eliminated within one generation.
Please expose and explain what might be “theory” or false or dubious in all of this.October 13, 2017 at 3:06 pm #1646366
paulinemMemberMember since: July 8, 2006
Apologies to the group the post I put in yesterday had large parts missing I thought I deleted it ……anyway here is the guts of what I had planned to say…………>
Halycon your comment re a guidance person into some homes is interesting. I belong in my community to a local community/church group, which started up after our local church school identifyed 25 families whom were in desperate need of help and assistance.
It was decided rather than just give food parcel/ vegtables etc instead send in an older ( been there done that ) person to befriend a family in need and find out what was the route cause of problem ( ie large debt/ depression/low wages etc ) of the families demise. This person would then in friendship bring a food parcel and vegetables etc including in the winter the community group did extensive firewood chopping from fallen trees etc that they were directed too. They also arranged money to be loaned to pay of any debt owning then the family would with finance guidance pay back at a rate it was the community group decided they could afford to pay on a regular basis.
These guidance peoples discovered in their friendship that (despite Jens obsessive looniness) that one cap doesn’t fit all as to why they are in hardship and in poverty and saving is NOT going to ahppen Jens when you dont earn enough o pay your regular basic commitments ie rent power food But it is a waste time discussing anything with you Jens due to your obsessiveness over kiwi saver …so DONT bother replying I will ignore it !!
Anyway back to this group and the families they help was one such women they discovered worked nights but as familiar these days struggled to meet her commitments ie rent/power bills/ food etc due to low wages paid Use to takes the kids to school when arrived back home “then goes to bed …but more and more she found it impossible to want get up out of bed re depression as what she was earning she couldn’t pay her costs etc “She was in the mood to do away with herself as she found the struggle just got to he
But what gave her inspiration to snap out of depression was one afternoon she heard from her bed chopping …. she went down to find a man chopping firewood for her … this generous use of the mans time …sparked within heri can over come this…and she did and is now on track to face hers and her childrens into the “future with the communities backing .
This group has helped a lot of families get out of debt by negotiating and paying the debts gradually back. They do not help adults whom they pick due to a current n addiction etc ..they have to be trying to get out of this problem I can overcome this I can face my poverty problems etc …the group call for donations re presents for Christmas Easter etc … ( they get heaps and heaps etc ) now the group is working on teaching the families that can how to put a veggie garden in their homes
In brief as you correctly pointed out that when a friendly non judgemental guidance person goes into the home it and befriends them sees whats the route cause of their problems etc and then can make a difference to a families lives. The managing of family debt has been a life saver to many of these families.October 14, 2017 at 2:49 pm #1646477
arandar – since the good works done by you and a our welfare system has not delivered adequately on a wide enough (universal) level, why are you so reluctant to support a more vigorous and systematic effort of prosperity creation with un-evadable participation by and for all ?October 14, 2017 at 3:23 pm #1646485
Jens, its like pissing against the wind!
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