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Poverty

This topic contains 372 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of jens jens 4 days, 4 hours ago.

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  • #1646025
    Profile photo of doogie
    doogie
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    Member since: March 27, 2006
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 5493

    Jens

    That is a question that these poeple will never address.

    #1646028
    Profile photo of halcyon
    halcyon
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    Member since: May 4, 2014
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 3426

    Doc, I agree totally. But to take “ the populace with us” will take more than just throwing money at the problem. If it was a case of just economics then it makes sense to invest now to make future savings.

    And I agree “Children who are maltreated  are more likely  to have poor mental health into the future“. One of the dilemmas facing CYF (or new name)  Social Workers is the abuse of removing children at risk from abusive homes. The guiding principal is which choice is the less abusive.  Several Social Workers I have discussed this issue with favour bringing someone into the home to monitor the parental behaviour and to educate the parents. This would be a good starting place. But it will need acceptance ‘outside the box’ . I will be interested in the reaction this post brings.

    An additional idea would be managed accommodation where those who neglect their children to feed their addictions live, with their family in a communal environment where assistance is available and managed. (Yes, there are such rehabilitation centres now. But these require voluntary participation).

    Therefore what I am suggesting is a multi-idea approach to poverty that is child focused.

    #1646122
    Profile photo of paulinem
    paulinem
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    Member since: July 8, 2006
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 477

    .. ne such women who works night takes the kids to school   then goes to bed …but more and more she found it impossible to get up re depression as what she was earning she  couldn’t pay her costs etc ..what gave her inspiration as one afternoon she heard from her bed chopping …. she went down to find a man chopping firewood for her … this sparked  i can over come this…. This group has helped a lot of families get out of debt by negotiating and paying the debts gradually back.  They do not help adults whom   they ick  have an addiction etc ..they ahve to be I can overcome this I can face my poverty problems etc …the group call for donations re presents for Christmas easter etc … ( they get heaps and heaps etc ) now the group is  working on teaching the families that can how to put a veggie garden in

    #1646155
    Profile photo of jens
    jens
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    Member since: May 3, 2006
    Topics: 19
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    halcyon  – since the primary cause of  child poverty is parental poverty(?) –  an exclusively child  focused poverty alleviation  program is not  enough for  poverty elimination,  because it  does not prevent  continuation of of the  parental poverty  tradition.

    Therefore, is not  a universally  all-inclusive  effort  needed,  with  non-evadable participation also  by  the inevitable  and ever-present proportion of socially dysfunctionals,  handicapped, and  emotionally and  ideologically opposed ?

    Wouldn’t that  fit in  very well  with the “multi-idea” approach on (child) poverty elimination ?

    • This reply was modified 6 days, 2 hours ago by Profile photo of jens jens.
    #1646158
    Profile photo of halcyon
    halcyon
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    Member since: May 4, 2014
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 3426

    Jens, no use asking me. The best idea is that you seek out those who live in poverty and ask them what they think of your idea. I think you will find a large gap between the philosophy and the praxis of your notion. I would suggest there is a parallel with asking a blind man to chose between two shade of pink for painting the wall.

    #1646160
    Profile photo of arandar
    arandar
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    Member since: November 23, 2009
    Topics: 54
    Replies: 10033

    Please don’t do that Doogie.

    The ‘these people’ to whom you refer so disparagingly I know includes me.

    Believe me, I’ve spent years helping families and individuals understand how to get control of their own finances.

    I’ve tutored illiterate and enumerate adults. I’ve shown people how to understand a bank account, or a power account 🙄, read a contract and it’s fine print, work through the end cost of an HP agreement.

    I know how the system works Doogie.

    I know the system we have now ensures that the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, winners take almost all.

    My experience may not be your, and my conclusions are quite obviously not yours.

    Doesn’t mean mine are wrong.

    OTOH,if Jens’s opinions and economic theories were valid they’d have been adopted by neoLib and conservative govts all around the world, wouldn’t they? And they haven’t. Anywhere.

    🌊Arandar🏄🏽‍♀️

    #1646190
    Profile photo of jens
    jens
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    Member since: May 3, 2006
    Topics: 19
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    halcyon, your example of asking the blind  to choose between 2 shades  of pink does not apply to  the  case of asking the poor  if they would  prefer to remain in welfare  alleviated  poverty or  become prosperous  through their own participation in the effort,  because the  blind can not  cure  their  blindness by that  choice  between  2 shades of pink, whereas  even the  unable  have-nots can become   haves   with  their  voluntary or enforced  participation   in a  universal systematic  wealth  ownership  creative effort  by and for all.

    There is no  theory nor  ideology behind  that, because it is  a physical, tangible and  measurable  fact, that if  you save  reserves for  security and useful  investment or trading with  what  your  neighbor has to offer you, increasing prosperity  and welfare is  normally  inevitable  –  and that is the  basis  of  whatever  prosperity  we  have achieved  so far.

    Your and arandar’s  views on the  unenthusiastic views  of many (most?) have-nots is proof of the need for  a  universal systematic  effort with no  possibility  to evade or dodge  the  wealth ownership  creative savings effort –

    as has been  done in Singapore, with “Third World”  poverty eliminated  within  one generation.

    Please expose  and explain what might  be “theory” or   false or  dubious in all of this.

    #1646366
    Profile photo of paulinem
    paulinem
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    Member since: July 8, 2006
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 477

    Apologies to the group the post I put in yesterday had large parts missing I thought  I deleted it ……anyway  here is the guts of what I had planned to say…………>
    Halycon your comment re a guidance person into some homes is interesting. I belong in my community  to a local community/church group, which started up after   our local church school identifyed 25 families whom were in desperate need of help and assistance.

     

    It was decided rather than just give food parcel/ vegtables etc instead send in an older ( been there done that ) person to befriend  a family in need and find out what was the route cause of problem ( ie large debt/ depression/low wages etc ) of the families demise. This person would then in friendship bring a food parcel  and vegetables etc including in the winter the community group did extensive firewood chopping  from  fallen trees etc that they were directed too. They also arranged money to be loaned to pay of any debt owning then the family would  with finance guidance pay back at a rate it was the community group decided they could afford to pay on a regular basis.

    These guidance peoples discovered in their friendship that (despite Jens obsessive looniness) that one cap doesn’t fit all as to why they are in hardship and in poverty and saving is NOT going to ahppen Jens when you dont earn enough o pay your regular basic  commitments ie rent power food  But it is a waste time discussing anything with you Jens due to your obsessiveness over kiwi saver …so DONT bother replying I will ignore it !!
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    Anyway back to this group and the families they help was one such women they discovered worked nights but as familiar these days struggled to meet her commitments ie rent/power bills/ food etc due to low wages paid Use to takes the kids to school when arrived back home “then goes to bed …but more and more she found it impossible to want  get up out of bed  re depression as what she was earning she  couldn’t pay her costs etc “She was in the mood to do away with herself as she found the struggle just got to he

    But what gave her inspiration to snap out of depression was one afternoon she heard from her bed chopping …. she went down to find a man chopping firewood for her … this generous use of the mans time …sparked  within heri can over come this…and she did and is now on track to face hers and her childrens into the “future with the communities backing .

    This group has helped a lot of families get out of debt by negotiating and paying the debts gradually back.  They do not help adults whom   they pick due to a current n addiction etc ..they have to be trying to get out of this problem I can overcome this I can face my poverty problems etc …the group call for donations re presents for Christmas Easter etc … ( they get heaps and heaps etc ) now the group is  working on teaching the families that can how to put a veggie garden in their homes

    In brief as you correctly pointed out that when a friendly non judgemental guidance person goes into the home it and befriends them sees whats the route cause of their problems etc and then can make a difference to a families lives. The managing of family debt has been a life saver to many of these families.

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 7 hours ago by Profile photo of paulinem paulinem.
    • This reply was modified 5 days, 7 hours ago by Profile photo of paulinem paulinem.
    #1646477
    Profile photo of jens
    jens
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    Member since: May 3, 2006
    Topics: 19
    Replies: 6814

    arandar – since  the good works  done by you and  a our welfare  system  has not delivered adequately on a  wide   enough (universal) level, why  are you so reluctant to support a more vigorous and systematic  effort of prosperity  creation  with  un-evadable  participation  by and for all ?

     

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 7 hours ago by Profile photo of jens jens.
    #1646485
    Profile photo of stranger-on-the-shore
    stranger-on-the-shore
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    Member since: October 6, 2017
    Topics: 0
    Replies: 27

    Jens, its like pissing against the wind!

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