- #1720280doogie May 25, 2019 at 6:44 pm
Doogie if the country cannot earn enough ie with tax payments, exports etc how do you propose we pay for teachers and health expenses.
As I said before, you don’t borrow money to pay for day to day internal expenses. You cut your cloth to suit. No different from a two family income dropping back to one. The only solution is to cut their cloth to the new situation. if that means a lower standard of living, so be it.#1720284paulinem May 25, 2019 at 9:01 pm
Halycon you are looking at election results with a simple blind eye. Social Credit stood for many years under the first past the post election system. A very unfair election system which encouraged very focused voting on two parties, to ensure a left/right thinking ie no in between variety as SC represented, It was social credit that lead the campaign to change our election system to proportional voting to assure a fair and representative of NZ values election system ie STV election system. In the end because of the political games been played by mostly National to get the vote to stick to FPP they changed their support from STV to MMP which we now have. They have been low key for a few elections as the MMP campaign took a lot of energy and money out of there supporters. But I suggest to you it would be foolish to write them off, but I admit your main friend is the values of the me me generation whom dont care about any values but there own needs, Ie no political party can guarantee their support !
Jens refuses to admit that money can be printed/ computer entry without a matching savings his hobby horse in banking. Hes dreaming it can and has been world wide since the 1930s , yes some countries have nearly bankrupt themselves by doing this irresponsibly like Zimbabwe.But others like NZ back in the time I mentioned 1938-1984 gave us stability, security and basic livable income to all NZ citizens with a Keynesian economy ( very similar to a social credit economy ). Yes it also gave us no or very few major wealthy residents. This is why Bob Jones Micheal Fay and David Richwhite hated the Keynesian economy!!!
Doogie you sound like a very very hard man as if you had your way we would have less health care less teachers, less welfare Children would starve under your system and all because you do not want our Govt to look at alternative internal, income sources besides what they get from taxes etc. Heck event the party you support National doesn’t agree with your values, and has used reserve bank credit to assure the economy was evenly circulated around NZ citizens.#1720286halcyon May 25, 2019 at 9:32 pm
paulinem, your comment is interesting as Social Credit had greater representation under FPP than it had under MMP. It is now over 10 years since the last SC MP was elected. And as I demonstrated earlier, the number of votes obtained has continued to fall. During the heydays of the early 1980’s SC gained around 20% of the vote. In the last 15 years it has failed to gain 0.1%. This leaves it languishing amongst the number of odd Parties. Last election the Aotearoa Cannabis Party gained more votes. And so did ACT.
No, I haven’t written SC off. But it will be interesting to see if they gain a greater percentage of votes than Tamaki’s party. Some how I doubt it.
It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right.#1720289doogie May 26, 2019 at 6:24 am
You are eager to lambast jens principles on saving which has far more credibility than what you propose. Remember this “nothing is created from nothing” which printed money is.#1720291doogie May 26, 2019 at 8:33 am
Using your principles of government printing money in hard times it would be ok for a family in financial difficulty to do the same by writing valueless cheques for goods to get them through.#1720292paulinem May 26, 2019 at 9:24 am
Doogie are you a father ie do you have children of your own? If yes in being a grownup you are the generation that enjoyed the family benefit being paid to the mother of your children. How do you think the Govt back in your younger days paid for the FB to be paid to your children’s mother and every other mother in those days ?
Yes it could have been National in power in your younger days, as I think from memory the Nats won in 1952 and were to remain in power for a considerable time, thanks to the unfair FPP election system until 1984.
The family benefit could be capitalized back in our younger days, ie it was worked out how much money would be paid out in FB for the time of a normal childhood . Many many parents back in those days used this lump sum as a deposit on buying a new built home, as they had no other way of saving for it normally, and getting into the property market.
Nappy Valley ( Wainuomata) was built on the FB lump sum, as the parents back then used the money to get them selves a home built in this area. Thus these people went on to normal prosperity and a good life with their family. My sister and husband with their six children was one of them back in the 1950s, They lived in nappy valley and he was never out of work until he retired, and she later when the children were old enough trained as a teacher and went to work also.
Yet by your tone such support to families is wrong, as I said you are a very very hard man !#1720293halcyon May 26, 2019 at 10:13 am
Good point doogie. We see what happens when families use credit to cover times of hardship.
And what paulinem hasn’t highlighted is that the last action of the Muldoon Government was to devalue the NZ Dollar due to it becoming over valued. Imagine a 20% devaluation happening today. Our cost of living would greatly increase.
To date no one has been able to make a definitive statement that devaluation would not follow the RBNZ printing money.
It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right.#1720295paulinem May 26, 2019 at 11:28 am
There is nothing more valuable than truth ahhm
Halycon it was Roger Douglas not MULDOON that devalued the NZ dollar 20%!! Then changed the economic direction from Keynesian to Liberal and gave much power to private trading banks to create money!
By the way I forgot to add the Govt back in those bad old days gave State Advances ( now Housing corp )low interest loans to eligible Kiwis. This is how they could afford to build or buy their homes with a FB lump sum deposit.
Ahh how do you and Doogie think the Govt back in those bad days paid for these loans etc. Employment to build the homes etc etc???
Haylcon for your benefit -There is nothing more valuable than truth#1720299halcyon May 26, 2019 at 12:42 pm
Okay, lets have a look at the truth. According to Wikipedia item 1984 NZ constitutional crisis:
In early 1984 the Deputy Governor of the Reserve Bank, Roderick Deane, became concerned that the New Zealand dollar had become significantly overvalued and was vulnerable to currency speculation on the financial markets in the event of a “significant political event”. ……
The Reserve Bank advised the Prime Minister, Sir Robert Muldoon, who was also the Minister of Finance, that the dollar should be devalued. Muldoon ignored the advice……..
By constitutional convention, between election day and the return of the writs for the election, an outgoing caretaker government implements the directions of an incoming government………( Remember,the Fourth Labour government led by David Lange was not sworn in until 26 July)
On the morning on Wednesday 18 July, after an emergency caucus meeting, Muldoon relented and agreed to devalue the currency upon Lange’s wishes. Muldoon’s most senior Cabinet members, led by the soon to be Leader Jim McLay, had threatened to remove Muldoon from his leadership of the National Party and therefore strip him of his post as Prime Minister and Minister of Finance……
So technically, yes, it was at the insistence of the incoming Labour Government that Muldoon devalued the $NZ. However, evidence shows that by refusing to do so earlier he placed the Country’s economy in peril of collapse and cost us dearly through his miss-management.
It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right.#1720302paulinem May 26, 2019 at 12:54 pm
Halycon I was around in NZ at this time, involved in politics I dont care what Wikeapedia says it was Roger Douglas that arranged the devaluation at the insistence of Bob Jones Micheal Fay and Fay Richwhite as they DELIBERATELY sent their money out of the country pre the election. Then as soon as Douglas devalued they brought their money back into NZ, and made a financial killing impacting the NZ economy re Exchange rate crisis ….this is the REAL reason for the crisis, NOT Muldoons action !!!
There is nothing more valuable than truth
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