- #1677019mommabear70 April 22, 2018 at 6:16 pm
Believe them or not.
The NZ government say that they can’t find any spies to deport in the wake of the Russian poisoning scandal but… a former Russian spy one Boris Karpichkov who lived in New Zealand claims other spies for the Kremlin are operating here.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12036908#1677020halcyonMemberMember since: May 4, 2014
Replies: 4937halcyon April 22, 2018 at 6:17 pm
mommabear, if you agree with what those people say than why not say them in your own words. I would be more interested to read your original writing than something I can read elsewhere.
And you are right, “Under the guidelines of Grownups,
I am(you are) free to state my opinion on any matter.” But that does not exclude the question “Why would you bother to cut and paste?”
Secondly, is “the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas”. How has that been established? Do all hedgehogs have fleas?
I remember a story about a shepherd and Ag Research Scientist who were traveling down to Wellington in a bus. They passed flock of sheep on the road. The shepherd said “those sheep have just been shorn. The Scientist said “what we can say is that the sides of the sheep facing us have been shorn. As some sheep have their right hand sides facing us, and some sheep have their left hand sides facing us, and standard shearing practice is to shear the sheep allover when shearing, we can conclude that it is likely those sheep have been shorn”.
The story of your nephew supports my position. We need to continually evaluate and seek further information.
It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right.#1677140mommabear70 April 23, 2018 at 11:08 am
halcyon, a while back you said “How do we delineate between “freedom of speech” and “personal attack”? Surely when the comment is made about the individual it is personal attack and therefore runs the risk of becoming hate speech.”
sir nigel adds “Oh but Halcyon, can we say then that ‘freedom of speech’ means we can say what we like, how we like, or whether anyone else likes. It still only comes down to one’s opinion…
To members in general, I suggest it’s not a good idea to go down the make-your-speech-like-this road as that is taking away the freedom.
I used to often wonder why one particular poster would bother copying and pasting the almost identical paragraph day after day, week in week out.
No one questioned that type of posting out loud. And why not? The answer is simple. That person is one of your own. Not only was the poster never questioned, the poster was encouraged to keep doing it.
Then there’s another particular poster who copied and pasted the almost identical subject day after day. That behaviour got up the nose of many. That poster was constantly gang-harassed. And why? Again, the answer is simple. That person is not one of your own.
Now halcyon, back to your original “mommabear, why cut and paste comments by the readers of Whaleoil on these threads. At best those comments are only opinion and for some there are real questions as to the level of cognitive functioning of the writers. Whaleoil is the Right Wing equivalent of The Standard and contains about the same amount of empirical evidence.
We have enough crazy opinion on these threads without importing more. It is sound facts that we lack. Give us the facts and allow us to interpret them for ourselves.”
On the first sentence, how about we ban all copy and pasting no matter the origin? That would mean no http blah blah headlines or pictures or youtubes from all online sources.
To be fair such a ban would have to cover everything, not just ones that some people might describe as from the gutters, or ones that snowflakes, ie, persons who have an inflated sense of their own uniqueness, have an unwarranted sense of entitlement, or are easily offended and unable to deal with opposing opinions they don’t like.
Such a ban may have to include copy and pasting members quotes.
Quite obviously such a ban would have to be rubber stamped by Grownups Admin.
Until then, I’ll continue..
On the ‘why not say them in your own words’ have you forgotten the well known phrase “I couldn’t have put it better myself”?
‘Something I can read elsewhere’ is fair enough, but not all readers of Grownups read Whaleoil.
Do you honestly think it’s a good look to question the level of cognitive functioning of the commenters on Whaleoil, or any other blog for that matter? I’m truly astounded that you of all people would use the word ‘crazy’ when it comes to peoples’ opinions.
Give us the facts you say?
Lilith7 posted an interesting “I think it may be getting close to a time when we have to have carefully vetted & credited sources of information,articles,TV news items etc.etc due to the large amount of fake news/very slanted news now. There was a time when journalism held to the principles of checking carefully every story for authenticity before writing it up & always containing the where,who,when,how,why of it – they used proof readers back then,too.”
Who exactly would be doing the careful vetting?
What qualifications would these people need?
Who would decide the qualifications?
Would examinations be required?
Would there need to be a first, second and third level of such vetting?
Any such vetters need to consider snowflakes and non-snowflakes.
And on and on, the questions..
With all that in mind, we’re right back to square one – who decides?
A while back I made the statement “Any NZ-EU trade agreement is at least three years away.”
Hero42 responds with “OK lets just check the facts. Brexit only restricts the UK from entering into an external deal while still a member of the EU”.
Well the facts are, UK, at this present point in time is still a member of the EU.
This morning on the RNZ website – National Party trade spokesperson Todd McClay reiterates that with “..any notion that a Commonwealth deal could be struck before Brexit took place was impossible”.
It seems to me the facts around when any NZ-UK-Commonwealth trade deals can start to be negotiated cannot be before 11pm UK time on Friday, 29 March, the scheduled date for UK to leave the EU.
But as you rightly say halcyon, truth is getting harder to find.#1677141lilith7MemberMember since: April 9, 2017
Replies: 2029lilith7 April 23, 2018 at 11:16 am
I suspect that a blind man on a bike going for his life could have told that us entering the mine was symbolic. In fact,so very obvious was it that its difficult to understand opposition supporters making so much of it – possibly they didn’t understand that it was symbolic.
I take your 3 points, Arandar but nevertheless I think there’s a place for actual,legitimate,verified as genuine,news. Though whether it happens is another thing altogether.
I know a slightly different version of that saying:
“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”
😎 🙂#1677144mommabear70 April 23, 2018 at 11:41 am
“I’m very careful around how I categorise someone’s speech.”
Jacinda Ardern#1677149mommabear70 April 23, 2018 at 12:27 pm
lilith7, I wonder what Andrew Little would say to being likened to a blind man on a bike going for his life.
Interesting that quote of Mark Twain.
Here you are repeating the lie that Andrew Little told, that the mine was entered.
Proof readers, lol.#1677154don021MemberMember since: May 15, 2012
Replies: 1772don021 April 23, 2018 at 12:50 pm
Of course Andrew Little was just making a show of walking a few metres into the Pike River mine entrance, he is only encouraging people to tread further into the mine proper, that should be left alone. Subjecting more people to danger is not going to bring back any of the lost miners, nobody knows how dangerous conditions are in the mine.#1677186Hero42 April 23, 2018 at 3:37 pm
Once again someone quotes only part of my post to distort what I said to push their own agenda.
Nothing new there then.
Cheers 🙂#1677187Hero42 April 23, 2018 at 3:51 pm
“This morning on the RNZ website – National Party trade spokesperson Todd McClay reiterates that with “..any notion that a Commonwealth deal could be struck before Brexit took place was impossible”.
It seems to me the facts around when any NZ-UK-Commonwealth trade deals can start to be negotiated cannot be before 11pm UK time on Friday, 29 March, the scheduled date for UK to leave the EU.”
The facts are not quite as Mommabear see them.
Back in December 2017 Eurocrats said technically talks on a trade deal between the UK and EU could begin at one minute past 11pm British time on March 29, 2019 – the exact point at which Britain will have technically left the club.
Until then the two sides can work on a “framework” for that trading relationship which lays out in some detail what both sides want. The pact could not legally come into force until after the end of a transition in 2021.
The same principle would apply to any FTAs the UK chose to negotiate – whether that be copy and pasting current EU agreements with the likes of Canada or constructing new ones with countries such as the US.
The EU official said: “What’s technically clear is that no agreement with third countries could come into force during this period of time because then’d we’d no longer have the same rules vis-a-vis the rest of the world.
Trust that sets the facts out clearly.
Cheers 🙂#1677188Hero42 April 23, 2018 at 3:53 pm
Those facts aside any deal with the Commonwealth is going to be years away because the more countries that sit down at the negotiating table the longer it takes to agree a unified deal that suits everyone.
That said there is no reason not to start talking about it now.
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