- #1672092halcyon March 13, 2018 at 2:50 pm
You are right Hero.
“On Friday Robertson raised the prospect of using “value capture” to pay for infrastructure such as rail – targeted rates or taxes for those who benefit from the infrastructure in question, such as through higher house values………
When Bridges was asked on Sunday for National’s position on value capture he replied, “I think it’s good”.”
However, both Collins and Adams had previously condemned the value capture as another tax.
I behave therefore I am.
(Apologies to B F Skinner and Rene Descartes)#1672130doogieMemberMember since: March 27, 2006
Replies: 6223doogie March 13, 2018 at 8:42 pm
There is little difference between government budgeting and household budgeting, just that the numbers are bigger in govn. spendinng. Like different families, different govn. will differ in spending priorities. If you can manage a personal budget you are qualified to manage state finacing in my opinion#1672301doogieMemberMember since: March 27, 2006
Replies: 6223doogie March 15, 2018 at 5:39 am
Isn’t it facinating how when Labour are getting bad press all the lefties on this thread go quite, very quite. Had the situation been a year ago and occured within National this thread would have been very dominated by it. Selective hear no evil, speak no evil is most likely the reason.#1672305drlivingstoneMemberMember since: October 22, 2006
Replies: 34938drlivingstone March 15, 2018 at 7:14 am
Doogie, Personal medical emergencies Noticed you have been on hobbies thread, Hows move?
Peoples Republic Of Christchurch#1672309halcyon March 15, 2018 at 8:33 am
True doogie, I wondered why the “Political” threads were quiet since Sunday. Avoidance seems to be the normal practice of the Left when things go wrong on their watch. So maybe this is the new Progressive Labour. As an ex-president, Mike Williams said, this would not have happened under Helen Clarke’s watch. And he was the instigator of the “camps”.
He made it clear he would have informed Helen one minute after the event happened. Maybe the current President does not have faith in Ardern to handle such matters? However, I would suggest she has managed things well once she has been informed.
I behave therefore I am.
(Apologies to B F Skinner and Rene Descartes)#1672312arandarMemberMember since: November 23, 2009
Replies: 10530arandar March 15, 2018 at 9:25 am
Sorry, Doogie and ? Any other Righties.
I’ve not been coming here very often. There are fewer and fewer posters and posts I could add to. I miss the many and varied posts and posters of the past and I never respond to ongoing angry and bitter rants anyway.
Besides, I’m so busy in community and the book/s I’m writing occupy almost all my spare time and most of my mind these days.
Govt finances. One big difference between govts and households is that govts can decide their own income – something most households can’t do.
Another is the competing demands on them. Households, generally, only have themselves, ie their family or at most their flat mates to consider. Govts have huge numbers of competing demands, responsibilities and obligations.
The third is that democratic govts have to weigh the electoral consequences … it’s easier to ‘dictate’ to a household when ‘democracy’ might actually only apply to one or two members.
Labour’s Summer Camp. I haven’t commented on this because 1. I am concerned about the young victims’ privacy and 2. I didnt know enough about what happened and 3. I do know speculation, uninformed opinions and gossip about sexual assault cases are hugely damaging … eg have the effect of silencing other possible complainants in this and other cases.
So, generally speaking, and leaving the victims out of this – IMO, morally this was handled right in that any subsequent actions should be victim led but
not immediately informing the PM was politically wrong and naive, and
trusting young teens and twenties to organise, supervise and police a party was politically foolish and naive at best and bloody dangerous at worst, as any parent of young teens and twenties would/should know.
Further, If people of the age of consent or older do not choose to involve their parents and caregivers or police, it is not the role or duty or beneficial of others to go over their heads. Offers of support were made at the time, including help to tell parents, police, and get counselling. Those offers were declined.
‘Adult’ Labour should have taken control at that point, not left the responsibility with Young Labour to follow up and continued to communicate, support and listen to the victims.
Those are a few of my initial thoughts.
🌊Arandar🏄🏽♀️#1672325gabyoneMemberMember since: November 13, 2008
Replies: 2595gabyone March 15, 2018 at 10:44 am
Great post Arandar.
As neither a left or right supporter, I say lets not turn this into a witch hunt for political gain. The person/people responsible on the night failed their duties of supervision. To those horrified by the the fact that 16 year olds were drinking, I say wake up, drinking at that age is rife & happens in families with great parents. Many teens have sneaked alcohol in the past.
The only way to be sure that no alcohol was on camp would be to strip search every person on entry. Then if people were allowed out of camp they would need to be searched on return. Imagine the hue & cry there would be if such searches took place.
When one of my children, now aged 51, was a teen the local high school took students to Auckland for several days. Many city places were to be visited and they were staying together in a large facility. On the 2nd or 3 evening all parents were called and asked to collect our children as there had been some misbehaviour and they would be home that evening. Turned out one child had taken alcohol in their luggage & some others had sneaked out to buy more from an alcohol supplier nearby. This story made it into the Truth newspaper. Despite only a few being involved all the parents supported the school for their cancellation of the trip. However the reporting of the matter in the Truth caused much damage to the school & staff & many innocent children.
For the sake of all the young people involved I believe some privacy should be allowed. It is the 16 year olds right to decide ( hopefully with family support) whether they want to be involved in any prosecution of the 20 year old who sexually assaulted them.
Have some empathy folks, we have all seen how the victims often suffer in a court.
Sexual assaults can happen regardless of the best supervision.
Gabyone Auckland region#1672333lilith7MemberMember since: April 9, 2017
Replies: 1732lilith7 March 15, 2018 at 11:15 am
On the contrary – I commented on it in the Sexism thread yesterday, & have also commented on other forums.
I think perhaps the main point is that,imo there’s absolutely no need for alcohol to be at such camps. Most of us know what’s likely to happen when alcohol is added to teenagers,having been there & possibly done that,ourselves.
Its an awful situation & not helped by the fact that some on the right continue to strive to keep it in the public eye past the time when things should be getting calmer, allowing the victims time to recover in prvacy.#1672377don021MemberMember since: May 15, 2012
Replies: 1637don021 March 15, 2018 at 1:15 pm
Like Mike Hosking or not, what he said is worth taking note of, ” if this Gov’t. cannot run a youth camp, how can they run a country?” Allowing alcohol at a youth camp is beyond my comprehension.#1672381halcyon March 15, 2018 at 1:20 pm
I certainly agree with you lilith7. There is actually no need for alcohol to be present at a youth camp. Those camps are time limited for goodness sake. Surely if young Labour supporters are really interested in learning more about politics and Labour’s philosophy they should be prepared to value that opportunity to learn and be prepared to go without alcohol for a short period of time that the camp ran for.
It is not uncommon for youth camps to outlaw alcohol, yet those who attended often report a most enjoyable time.
I behave therefore I am.
(Apologies to B F Skinner and Rene Descartes)
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