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This topic contains 2657 replies, has 41 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of henri henri 11 hours, 38 minutes ago.

Viewing 10 posts - 1,981 through 1,990 (of 2,658 total)
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  • #1646207
    Profile photo of mommabear70
    mommabear70
    Member
    Member since: February 20, 2017
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 565

    “So Winston’s demands can not have been that onerous.”

    Settling aside the ridiculous lack of dignity the process is forcing on the parties, it is also an affront to the public. No-one is saying all the details of the talks should be revealed, but it is hard to see where the harm would be in a daily briefing of the topics discussed and a clear statement of how the final deal will be done and ratified.

    I suppose it gives you some idea of how beguiling is power – and the baubles and salaries of office – that Labour, National and the Greens are willing to play such a demeaning game.
    Yep this is what happens when you give all the power to Winston – he sets the rules. What should happen is all parties in Parliament should meet each other, discuss areas they could work together, and then make decisions on the best option.
    But as Greens refuse to consider anything but Labour, they have handed all power to Winston.
    If this isn’t a sure sign of the chaos to come, I don’t know what is.

    #1646232
    Profile photo of doogie
    doogie
    Member
    Member since: March 27, 2006
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 5730

    What needs to be considered is that there will be no coalition formed by NZ First and they will sit on the cross benches on all issues

    #1646270
    Profile photo of halcyon
    halcyon
    Member
    Member since: May 4, 2014
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 3841

    Good point doogie. That could be the way NZF goes.

    mommabear, there are 5 permutations to the next government: Labour/ National, National/ Labour, National/ Green Party, National/ NZF and Labour/ NZF/ Greens.  The only thing preventing the most of those options is the narrow mindedness of their members. One only has to look at some overseas countries, that have a more mature concept of democracy, to see examples of unlikely bedmates who  have formed stable governments.

    Therefore it is erroneous to say they are handing all the power to Winston.

     

    #1646364
    Profile photo of Hero42
    Hero42
    Member
    Member since: July 18, 2008
    Topics: 61
    Replies: 10708

    It would appear Mommabear has never be part of a major negotiation when parallel negotiations are going on fr the same outcome.

    Why would any of the negotiating parties want a daily debrief that would alert the other parties to what was being discussed and possibly what had been conceded.

    If that happens it moves from serious negotiation to an auction.

    Cheers 🙂

    #1646365
    Profile photo of Hero42
    Hero42
    Member
    Member since: July 18, 2008
    Topics: 61
    Replies: 10708

    Halycon
    I agree with your view of Mommabears pessimism. Based on past experience Winston and NZ First have worked well with both major parties, better with Labour than with National but that comes down to personality clashes which I doubt will happen this time around.

    I think Mommabear is just annoyed that National didn’t get a clear run at a fourth term with the support of ACT, Maori and United Future as they have in the past and doesn’t like seeing democracy in action when coalitions are needed.

    I also question the use of the word demands. It would appear that these have been negotiations with give and take from both sides on policy rather than NZ First demanding and the other giving.

    Cheers 🙂

    #1646403
    Profile photo of sir-nigel-gresley
    sir-nigel-gresley
    Member
    Member since: January 10, 2017
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 772

    From Ocker. 🙂

    Happy Valley

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    #1646408
    Profile photo of kaiapoiken
    kaiapoiken
    Member
    Member since: November 27, 2015
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 201

    Nice one from Ocker. SOOO True. Ego to the fore. Ah, ’tis a funny ole world we live in, when 7-10% of electors can hold the other 90-93% to ransom and have policies rejected by said 90-93% considered and possibly adopted. All in  the name of “POWER”.

     

    #1646421
    Profile photo of halcyon
    halcyon
    Member
    Member since: May 4, 2014
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 3841

    I think we need to be wary of expecting to much chance even if we get a change of government. It  is possible that the fiscal climate may impact negatively on much that was offered.

    Recessions are cyclical and the last down turn was 2008.   While the financial sector in NZ is positive there are rumblings on the international scene. There are two major factors due during the next three years.

    The Fed is starting to unwind their $4.5 trillion balance sheet and some pundits suggest this could choke off credit growth, slow the economy and suppress inflation which is currently very low.

    There is also the Brexit due  in just under two years. That could have a negative impact in our overseas trade thus driving up the price of our imports. Well, maybe that is a good thing and please Green Party members as fuel prices will rise.

    As all parties have promised fiscal responsibility we could be in for a time of disappointment.

    #1646425
    Profile photo of jens
    jens
    Member
    Member since: May 3, 2006
    Topics: 22
    Replies: 6988

    If all parties have promised and  will  act fiscally  responsible,  can we  not  look  forward with confidence that  we  will survive trade depressions  relatively well, better  than many –  as  it happened  in the  last  30 years and in 2008 ?

    The increased  savings and investment  rate through resumed  NZ Super Fund  contributions may even initiate a steady  growth  of  widening  prosperity.

    #1646427
    Profile photo of halcyon
    halcyon
    Member
    Member since: May 4, 2014
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 3841

    That will only lead to a growth of widening prosperity if it can be funded out of income jens. If the cost of borrowing to resume contributions exceeds the returns then that will result in negative growth. That is the reason why National stopped contributions during the GFC.

    And how do we define “fiscally responsible” jens. The best intervention to a recession is a moot point. If the theorists can not agree then how do we expect our MPs or our voting public to agree?

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