- #1646207mommabear70MemberMember since: February 20, 2017
Replies: 1316mommabear70 October 12, 2017 at 10:43 pm
“So Winston’s demands can not have been that onerous.”
Settling aside the ridiculous lack of dignity the process is forcing on the parties, it is also an affront to the public. No-one is saying all the details of the talks should be revealed, but it is hard to see where the harm would be in a daily briefing of the topics discussed and a clear statement of how the final deal will be done and ratified.
I suppose it gives you some idea of how beguiling is power – and the baubles and salaries of office – that Labour, National and the Greens are willing to play such a demeaning game.
Yep this is what happens when you give all the power to Winston – he sets the rules. What should happen is all parties in Parliament should meet each other, discuss areas they could work together, and then make decisions on the best option.
But as Greens refuse to consider anything but Labour, they have handed all power to Winston.
If this isn’t a sure sign of the chaos to come, I don’t know what is.#1646232doogieMemberMember since: March 27, 2006
Replies: 6183doogie October 13, 2017 at 9:44 am
What needs to be considered is that there will be no coalition formed by NZ First and they will sit on the cross benches on all issues#1646270halcyon October 13, 2017 at 10:41 am
Good point doogie. That could be the way NZF goes.
mommabear, there are 5 permutations to the next government: Labour/ National, National/ Labour, National/ Green Party, National/ NZF and Labour/ NZF/ Greens. The only thing preventing the most of those options is the narrow mindedness of their members. One only has to look at some overseas countries, that have a more mature concept of democracy, to see examples of unlikely bedmates who have formed stable governments.
Therefore it is erroneous to say they are handing all the power to Winston.#1646364Hero42MemberMember since: July 18, 2008
Replies: 11215Hero42 October 13, 2017 at 2:56 pm
It would appear Mommabear has never be part of a major negotiation when parallel negotiations are going on fr the same outcome.
Why would any of the negotiating parties want a daily debrief that would alert the other parties to what was being discussed and possibly what had been conceded.
If that happens it moves from serious negotiation to an auction.
Cheers 🙂#1646365Hero42MemberMember since: July 18, 2008
Replies: 11215Hero42 October 13, 2017 at 3:05 pm
I agree with your view of Mommabears pessimism. Based on past experience Winston and NZ First have worked well with both major parties, better with Labour than with National but that comes down to personality clashes which I doubt will happen this time around.
I think Mommabear is just annoyed that National didn’t get a clear run at a fourth term with the support of ACT, Maori and United Future as they have in the past and doesn’t like seeing democracy in action when coalitions are needed.
I also question the use of the word demands. It would appear that these have been negotiations with give and take from both sides on policy rather than NZ First demanding and the other giving.
Cheers 🙂#1646403sir-nigel-gresleyMemberMember since: January 10, 2017
Replies: 910sir-nigel-gresley October 13, 2017 at 8:00 pm
From Ocker. 🙂
Attachments:You must be logged in to view attached files.#1646408kaiapoikenMemberMember since: November 27, 2015
Replies: 230kaiapoiken October 13, 2017 at 8:26 pm
Nice one from Ocker. SOOO True. Ego to the fore. Ah, ’tis a funny ole world we live in, when 7-10% of electors can hold the other 90-93% to ransom and have policies rejected by said 90-93% considered and possibly adopted. All in the name of “POWER”.#1646421halcyon October 13, 2017 at 10:12 pm
I think we need to be wary of expecting to much chance even if we get a change of government. It is possible that the fiscal climate may impact negatively on much that was offered.
Recessions are cyclical and the last down turn was 2008. While the financial sector in NZ is positive there are rumblings on the international scene. There are two major factors due during the next three years.
The Fed is starting to unwind their $4.5 trillion balance sheet and some pundits suggest this could choke off credit growth, slow the economy and suppress inflation which is currently very low.
There is also the Brexit due in just under two years. That could have a negative impact in our overseas trade thus driving up the price of our imports. Well, maybe that is a good thing and please Green Party members as fuel prices will rise.
As all parties have promised fiscal responsibility we could be in for a time of disappointment.#1646425jensMemberMember since: May 3, 2006
Replies: 7303jens October 14, 2017 at 8:09 am
If all parties have promised and will act fiscally responsible, can we not look forward with confidence that we will survive trade depressions relatively well, better than many – as it happened in the last 30 years and in 2008 ?
The increased savings and investment rate through resumed NZ Super Fund contributions may even initiate a steady growth of widening prosperity.#1646427halcyon October 14, 2017 at 8:33 am
That will only lead to a growth of widening prosperity if it can be funded out of income jens. If the cost of borrowing to resume contributions exceeds the returns then that will result in negative growth. That is the reason why National stopped contributions during the GFC.
And how do we define “fiscally responsible” jens. The best intervention to a recession is a moot point. If the theorists can not agree then how do we expect our MPs or our voting public to agree?
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