- #1737279arandarMemberMember since: November 23, 2009
Replies: 10820arandar November 15, 2019 at 8:18 pm
Arandar you are deliberately deviating from the reality of euthanasia it is in reality requesting another human to assist in a suicide.suicidal death !
In the medical/drugs available in our world we live in today no one needs to die naturally in pain
IMO, you are wrong on all counts, PaulineM.
I am not, deliberately or inadvertently, deviating from the ‘reality of euthanasia’ which is, by definition, assisted suicide. I am sure everyone knows that.
It is, after all, the point of the legislation because at present, while it is not a criminal offence to commit suicide, or to attempt suicide, it is a criminal offence to assist or abet a suicide.
What’s more, you seem to think asking someone whether a doctor or an unqualified family member to assist me to die is the same as forcing them to assist me to die. Obviously it is not. They too will have choice. Just as I hope and will vote to be allowed to choose when and how I die so will I support others to be allowed to choose whether or not to assist me.
Lastly, IMO, your faith in the efficacy of drugs to alleviate pain and fear is misplaced.
Medicalising the natural processes of dying are a serious part of this problem.
It’s not so long ago we mostly died at home, in our own beds, in a matter of hours or days, with our families around us.
It’s only been relatively recently that the soon to die have been whisked off to a hospital, to endure all sorts of procedures, painful and debilitating and often of no actual use at all, filled up with drugs, to spend their last days in a strange place, away from home and family, in a chemical fog, unable to do almost anything for themselves. Actually, I think this is the main reason why so many of us are afraid of dying – because we haven’t seen much of it – at least, not dying in the way it was.
I do not believe allowing assisted suicide will force anyone to do anything they do not want to do.
At the moment, you and the law are forcing me to do something I do not want to do.
Arandar#1737280paulinemMemberMember since: July 8, 2006
Replies: 1073paulinem November 15, 2019 at 8:51 pm
Arandar have you heard of Hospices re pain care?
That dying women whom started the recent debate to allow assisted suicide re your justification of endurable pain reason for needing euthanasia.
She actually died peacefully and naturally without pain in a hospice, under hospice love and care !
Person assisting in the suicide should have a choice !
Yeah Right Arandar we all know about people having a choice when in reality they feel they do not have a choice re subtle emotional bullying in the real world!#1737284arandarMemberMember since: November 23, 2009
Replies: 10820arandar November 15, 2019 at 9:18 pm
Sigh. Yes PaulineM. I have heard of Hospice. I am very supportive of the wonderful work they do and I support any effort to increase the number of hospices, the numbers of trained staff and the funding of the resources they need to extend their service to more and more people.
However, right now there are not enough nearly enough hospice beds for all who need them, and there are people with complex needs who cannot be cared for in hospice.
Please don’t patronise me, PaulineM. I am reasonably well informed having, as I said earlier, worked around the edges of this area and having family members who still do.
When I die, if possible, I want to die at home, in my own bed, with family and friends around me, at a time of my own choosing while I’m still aware and in control of most of what happens to me.
That’s all. Your beliefs are not my business. I’m not telling you what to think or do. I don’t think you should have the right to tell me I cannot live and die any way I choose.
PS. I think it’s fair to suggest the only emotional bullying going on here, in what is otherwise a respectful discussion, is your own use of such phrases as killer doctors.
#1737294paulinemMemberMember since: July 8, 2006
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by arandar.
Replies: 1073paulinem November 16, 2019 at 9:25 am
Obviously Arandar the problem is with you.…. if a trained Doctor chooses to be involved in the deliberate killing of life or assistance in another human suicide ……they are Killer Doctors. In the same way a medic chooses to be an abortionist is a killer of human life.
They saying the truth hurts is highly relevant in your upset and the above medics do not deserve any respect at all! They deserve to be called by what they are killers of life.
#1737296gabyoneMemberMember since: November 13, 2008
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by paulinem.
Replies: 2781gabyone November 16, 2019 at 9:48 am
For goodness sake Paulinem !!!! Give us a break from your shouting.
Just saying, yet again, it will not be compulsory for either patient or doctor to participate.
Interesting to me is the fact that the religious factions that scream about both abortion & euthanasia are strangely silent on war killings.
Gabyone Auckland region#1737297bruce139151MemberMember since: March 20, 2018
Replies: 94bruce139151 November 16, 2019 at 10:47 am
paulinem. IF the referendum turns out to be yes, it will only apply where it is ascertained the person has less than 6 months to live. In fact assisted euthanasia had been going on for ages unofficially.
In any case I suggest you pull you head in now from your petty ranting and accept that others beg to differ from your opinions and call it a day.
Good debate is one thing and should be the crux of discussions here, but to blindly and incessantly go on and on and accuse/insult others is not conducive to good debate.
Please now change the subject, maybe asking why so many chemicals are allowed in processed food that actually causes such things as cancer.#1737298gabyoneMemberMember since: November 13, 2008
Replies: 2781gabyone November 16, 2019 at 11:13 am
Good idea Bruce lets move to other discussions.
I also worry about the chemicals in processed foods. Consequently I try very hard to eat home made food as much as possible. My diet is probably rather bland & boring to some but I work hard to only eat wholesome with minimal additives.
Gabyone Auckland region#1737299bruce139151MemberMember since: March 20, 2018
Replies: 94bruce139151 November 16, 2019 at 11:27 am
gaybyone. Same here. If I can make it, bake it, grow it I’ll do so. That way I know what goes into everything.#1737300don021MemberMember since: May 15, 2012
Replies: 1830don021 November 16, 2019 at 11:53 am
I find it extraordinary that there re people out there who seem wuite happy tp let old folk suffedr in the last days of their life when relief is at hand.Humanity gone out the door.#1737301don021MemberMember since: May 15, 2012
Replies: 1830don021 November 16, 2019 at 12:13 pm
gabyone, I assume you are a compost gardener as I once was and I followed the advice in a little booklet titled Gardening without digging. It detailed the making of compost with no addition to natures growth other than blood & bone. My vege. garden was a great sight with all the vegetables our household of five needed, with great flavour. The compost heated during process to a heat that killed any weeds so any green growth could be put into the bins. Once when short of fill for the bins I cut barrow loads of growth from the roadside, all made good compost. The secret to making good compost is to mix it all up like a fruit cake, do not put it in the bin in layers. My bins were a cubic metre, two side by side and covered to prevent rain damage.
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