- #1734374Hero42MemberMember since: July 18, 2008
Replies: 12104Hero42 October 9, 2019 at 4:24 pm
It is the sad reality of the democracy we live with.
Winston Churchill is quoted as saying “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”
He is also quoted as saying “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”
That said it works until that 40% to 45% stops being split evenly between the major parties or the left right split and gets skewed in favour of one wing or the other and then the floating voters no longer have the desired effect of keeping them honest.
But it seems to me if that does happen and the party in power gets too extreme some of their supporters will abstain from voting as they don’t want to switch sides but they also don’t want to support the extreme policies.
Cheers 🙂#1734384paulinemMemberMember since: July 8, 2006
Replies: 1029paulinem October 9, 2019 at 4:35 pm
Arandar- you quote : I think the voting age should be lowered to 16 and Civics made compulsory at secondary school.
I 100% disagree, Arandar I see the quote let children be children Let teenagers be teenagers Let adults be adults as the order for life in reality.
A 16yrs a typical balanced normal teenager importance in life is his/her career when they leave school. Their worry should only be something like will the school sporting team win next week at the tournament that it is in. How am I going to persuade mum agree for me to have some money to buy that ?? Did you see ?? in room ? he/she is gorgeous really 10 out 10 of interests
A normal teenager drives their parents to hmmm (distraction) such as can I borrow the car -sorry I am late -I dont want to get out of bed -not my turn to do the dishes …this Arandar is how a balanced normal teenager whom is slowly becoming into adult world. Let a teenager confront adulthood when they are mature enough to deal with it !
Hero is right a young person IF they voted would follow Mum or Dad opinion as at 16 they havnt yet had to face hopefully the reality of our world we live in to make momentous decision such as who the best candidate to vote for. I did when I first started voting as I had not been focused on the ups and downs of life in reality. It was later when my children came along etc that I started to see life differ to my mother view of life ( my father died when I was 8)
To me one of the saddest I see with conflict overseas is not only how a child/teenager is physically damaged but how their innocence is lost ! I refer you to my above quote let Children……. let adults deal with the reality of the world we live in#1734399arandar October 9, 2019 at 5:35 pm
I don’t agree at all, PaulineM.
When you are 16 you are allowed to:
Get married or register a civil partnership with consent
Drive a moped or invalid carriage and get your P licence.
Consent to sexual activity with others aged 16 and over
Drink wine/beer with a meal if accompanied by someone over 18
Get a National Insurance number
Join a trade union
Work full-time if they have left school
Be paid national minimum wage for 16/17 year olds
Join the Armed Forces with parental consent
Change name by deed poll
Leave home with or without parental consent
In certain circumstances, must pay for prescriptions, dental treatment and eye tests
Choose a GP
Consent to medical treatment
Buy premium bonds
Pilot a glider
Buy a lottery ticket
Register as a blood donor, but won’t be called to give blood until age 17
Apply for a passport without parental consent
At 14, a child becomes a young person, legally responsible for any crime they might commit.
The young people I know would make a fine job of voting; none would unquestioningly follow their parents’ preferences. I think they’d do better than many of their elders who think they know it all and rarely question the habits and beliefs of a lifetime.
Last time I heard those guesstimates Hero, it was about 40% always vote National/ACT/(NZ1st); about 30% always vote Labour. Another 5-7%, of recent years, always vote Green. The rest, say 20-25%, are swinging voters.
The rift between NZ1st and National is going to make for some interesting changes around the margins next year I expect.
Arandar#1734401don021MemberMember since: May 15, 2012
Replies: 1797don021 October 9, 2019 at 5:48 pm
There is no doubt in my mind that a 16 year old does not have the experience to vote with knowledge of municipal affairs. Would we have the same shambles as happened when the driving age was lowered to 16? Boy racers, imagine having that sort of low intelligence voting in our local authorities.#1734403paulinemMemberMember since: July 8, 2006
Replies: 1029paulinem October 9, 2019 at 6:00 pm
Arandar reading the list a 16yr can do you wrote I find sad very very sad.I blame our selfish self serving politicians /judges for giving them these rights
I find your attitude to16yr old sad as you dont seem to see how its important for young people to go through the normal teenage development in maturity of a 16yr. You seem to see its important they develop at such an immature age the maturity you and I took as we entered the adult world and were confronted with the reality of life. All I can say leave our young alone to be young and yes self serving its normal for a teenager to be and think this way its part of their normal development.#1734407arandar October 9, 2019 at 6:09 pm
Don, I deal with boy (and girl) racers all the time.
They are rarely 16yo. They are 18 and often 30 yo. Their parents/fathers are petrol heads. They work as mechanics. They love their cars. They spend all their wages on them. They are a pain in the arse and I’m sick to death of them, laying down rubber, making noise; there’s two in our village with powerful cars they drive round our village between 1100-0200 and never ever drive over the speed limit. They’re warranted, registered, and aren’t illegal in any way … they’re just a pain; and they’re in their 20s.
Old people don’t get young people. And vice versa. But I think we underestimate our youth – they’re okay in my book.
Arandar#1734409arandar October 9, 2019 at 6:42 pm
I agree it’s a shame so many children are forced to be adults long before they are mentally, intellectually and even physically ready.
I’d prefer children were allowed to be children just as long as they want and are able to be.
I long for every child to be a wanted child, a loved child, a safe child, an educated child, a hopeful child.
Sadly, not every child around this world is any of those things.
Far too many are abused and exploited, physically and sexually, live in families below the poverty line.
I’ve known some who slept in cars and garages, who were hungry, cold and unable to participate in sport or school trips. I’ve known kids thrown out of home at 13 living on the streets until a pimp or a gang picked them up. I’ve known others who’ve truanted from 11 until every school gave up on them. I’ve known kids who’ve repeatedly tried to kill themselves from age 8; as a result of sex abuse.
Children growing up in families (and institutions) with drug and alcohol abuse, where violence is common, are forced to grow up very, very fast.
To deny them the right to leave and try to keep themselves safe, to get an education, or a job, to participate in trying to make their world, their society, their community a better place, is simply denying them hope for a better life.
Voting is not compulsory in this country. For us to say people are not equipped to vote sensibly until they reach (some arbitrary age plucked from the air or made from our own individual prejudices or experience) is wrong. Let people vote who want to vote. Educate them so their votes are not wasted. We have MMP to decide our general elections and STV to decide many of our local elections so most votes count for something.
Arandar#1734432BryanMemberMember since: October 28, 2006
Replies: 12472Bryan October 10, 2019 at 10:01 am
I thought that this site was fore people over 50 years old?? Anyway I am now over 80 and I must say “MY” memory is (or must be) a lot better than most of the members posting today & yesterday!
I left school at 15 earned my own keep and payed board. I was not old enough to drink and it wasn’t something that entered my mind. Surely I’m not that much different to others of my age group? I surely do not hold myself to be any sort of “holier than thou” sort of person.
It just seems to me that most seem to have a very low opinion of today’s youth!
At Home, At Peace and Causing Trouble In South Taranaki#1734458Hero42MemberMember since: July 18, 2008
Replies: 12104Hero42 October 10, 2019 at 1:50 pm
I have neighbours who are petrol heads.
The parents are in their 50s and the kids in their 30s and they all drive 3 litre and above V8s and most are adapted to be more powerful and louder than normal. They also race some of them.
They also seem to like leaving for work in the early hours of the morning.
Great people and highly productive but their passion is their cars.
Cheers 🙂#1734534arandar October 11, 2019 at 8:56 am
Exactly Bryan, exactly Hero.
An interesting fact, you can check it if you like but here it is,
Today’s youth drink less alcohol pp than their parents and grandparents did when young. And btw, it’s not the young who invented cheap sweet RTDs, or make and sell them, or import make & sell drugs like meth and ecstasy and cocaine.
Another fact, fewer youth now drive – partly because it’s so expensive to get licences and partly because they live in cities with decent public transport and don’t need to.
And a few more; they study harder, longer, yet many rightly worry there won’t be a rewarding job, ie one that’s permanent not casual, pays enough to live on and raise a family on, to buy a house or rent a decent, one at the end of 18+ years in expensive education, apprenticeships are much harder to obtain, the worry if they’ll be able to afford children and they’re having fewer, later, many worry whether they should even have children given the state of the world.
I think too many of us look backwards thru rose tinted spectacles or memories dimmed over time and allow the mainstream media, which survive (just) on catching our attention, ears, eyeballs and clicks with articles aimed to shock, anger or frighten, to persuade us into buying their advertisers products.
I reckon today’s young people are alright and I’d like to help make the world they’ll inherit from us a better place for them.
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