- #1710931mommabear70MemberMember since: February 20, 2017
Replies: 1672mommabear70 February 10, 2019 at 8:20 pm
Paulinem, of course I’m a fan of Whaleoil. It’s New Zealand’s number one news and information site.
Do you recall me asking you where you get all your posts from?
I don’t recall you telling me.
Presumption is so dangerous don’t you agree?
But here you go. None of the above post came from Whaleoil.
Had you done a bit of research you’d have realised that, but no, you’d sooner ‘presume’.
But tell you what, for your and huitahi’s benefit, with the exception of my questions and the one or two remarks, everything that Labour promised around mental health including what they cancelled plus the debacle around their inquiry/working groups policies, came from RNZ. Many different dates of course, but all it takes it is a bit of research.
I could have mentioned that in the above post, but as you’ve chosen to not name the places you get your pieces from, I see no good reason why I should follow different rules.
Even your ‘What you do/say/write of the least of mine you do unto me’ is at odds with that comparison.
A better saying for you might be ‘do as I say, not what I do.’
Now if you think RNZ has a nasty attitude and lack of understanding, then you shouldn’t read their news items.#1710945halcyonMemberMember since: May 4, 2014
Replies: 4816halcyon February 10, 2019 at 10:02 pm
That is correct mommabear, as one who is often on Whaleoil, I can confirm that you post that is in question is not a cut and paste from that website. And you are correct that RadioNZ ran an article in respect of the current government cancelling the funding National had budgeted to provide mental health workers to accompany Police
Rather than trying to marginalise a post, by throwing aspersions on the source, it would be of more value if people would explain why they think the government has acted correctly.
For example, the case of the government cancelling the funding that would allow mental health workers to accompany police when necessary. I believe this criticism is valid. Many of the call outs the Police answer are in respect of people who are mentally ill. Surely mental health workers, who are trained to manage such cases, are better placed to handle the situation. Also, by using mental health workers, this would free up Police to do other work.
So, to those who think this is unfair criticism of the government, please enlighten me as to your reasons. I am happy to admit if I am in the wrong. However, silence will indicate that my perspective is right.
Already disturbed, approach with caution.#1710981lilith7MemberMember since: April 9, 2017
Replies: 1855lilith7 February 11, 2019 at 11:47 am
Why is it,Mommabear that you expect absolute perfection without so much as a tiny mistake,from this new govt when you were apparently quite prepared to accept unquestioningly any action,including any mistake, made by the previous govt?
Most of us understand that any new govt is likely to err along the way while finding its feet. Probably due to their being human. 🙄#1710982huiatahiMemberMember since: March 22, 2017
Replies: 856huiatahi February 11, 2019 at 11:59 am
Paulinem, of course I’m a fan of Whaleoil
Of course that explains everything 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
huiatahi#1710984mommabear70MemberMember since: February 20, 2017
Replies: 1672mommabear70 February 11, 2019 at 12:09 pm
lilith7, before I step into that minefield you’ve just planted, please do enlighten me on the tiny mistakes you personally believe this CoL govt has tripped up on to date. But to keep it even, also list the tiny mistakes you personally believe the previous govt tripped up on.#1711028Hero42MemberMember since: July 18, 2008
Replies: 11557Hero42 February 11, 2019 at 3:58 pm
To be accurate the National government announced the pilot in August 2017 as one of 17 initiatives in a $100 million mental health fund. One could be cynical and say it was to buy votes.
But when the current government took office Health Minister David Clark said the idea “was never fully developed” and the funding had never been formally signed off by Cabinet.
“It appears the proposal, along with most of the other 16 floated at the time, was hurriedly cobbled together amid growing public concern about the situation in mental health in this country,” he said in a statement.
The government are not going down National’s plan for an ambulance at the bottom of the hill but rather that it was “better for everyone” that people get the help they need before that point the police are called.
It would have been interesting to see how National were going to find the health professionals needed to accompany police on callouts given there is a shortage in the country at the moment.
They would have needed to have the health professionals in the patrol cars so they wouldn’t have delayed the response time when the 111 call came in. And that’s a lot of health officials to find.
Not to mention while the health professionals were cruising around in patrol cars waiting for a 111 call they wouldn’t be doing anything to help with treating people who need assistance that aren’t in a life threatening scenario.
To put this into perspective the police get about 600,000 111 calls annually and of those about 46,000 relate to mental health issues. That is about 7.6% of calls.
Cheers 🙂#1711032arandarMemberMember since: November 23, 2009
Replies: 10580arandar February 11, 2019 at 4:09 pm
And that was the problem with that idea.
We have crisis teams to go to mental health emergencies. We simply don’t have enough of them
We have police to go to health, safety and possible crime incidents.
If we had enough crisis teams, police would not need to be so often called out to such events unless a possible crime was being committed or likely.
It isnt cost effective to duplicate or merge services when getting the first properly resourced and supported by police when required is a better way to improve the mental health service.
Arandar#1711063halcyonMemberMember since: May 4, 2014
Replies: 4816halcyon February 11, 2019 at 7:53 pm
Hero, National said it was budgeted for, Labour says it wasn’t. Ther is no evidence either way.
The main point is as arandar says, there is a need for more emergency mental health workers. And this needs to be funded, at least in the short term, while we wait for reports from review groups.
And there is no need for the mental health workers to ride along with Police. The ambulance service has a good model where specialist emergency medical staff are dispatched to incidents where they are needed.
Already disturbed, approach with caution.#1711114Hero42MemberMember since: July 18, 2008
Replies: 11557Hero42 February 12, 2019 at 1:38 pm
I think the difference here is the semantics of it. National budgeted for it in the sense they had lots of ideas before the election but the final budget they would have to play with after the election and all their other promises were evaluated plus the costs of any plans their coalition partners would want had not been finalised.
The full plan had not gone past cabinet with the final costs so we don’t know if it would have got off the ground in the manner it was described.
We have to remember that the plan was to have a pilot to see if it was feasible and how much it would actually cost.
True the health officials wouldn’t have to ride along with the police but then there would be a delay while the police attended the callout and assessed if a health professional was needed.
Then if they were needed would they arrive with the paramedics, in another police car or under their own steam in a separate vehicle.
All of these variations cost different amounts, have different subsequent issues and timing issues.
There is no denying the need, it is more around the way the solution is delivered.
Cheers 🙂#1711123arandarMemberMember since: November 23, 2009
Replies: 10580arandar February 12, 2019 at 3:03 pm
We need more mental health crisis teams, trained and well resourced.
We don’t have enough ambulances and ambulance crews to manage the workload they currently have let alone using them to transport Crisis teams to mental health incidents.
Mental health teams, Ambos and Police must work together but they all have quite different roles and training – eg Ambos are not allowed to drive into a scene where weapons or violence might be used.
As it is, Ambos are often subjected to violence from the patients and the patients’ supporters and bystanders.
And that’s particularly common with mental health incidents.
What we used to call Domestic Violence and now Family Harm often escalates rapidly into more general violence where weapons are produced and just as often take place with children in the immediate vicinity.
The whole situation is terribly complex and there are no quick fixes. It takes time and money as well as the policies, the capacity, the time to train, and the new recruits.
We need more trained people, well-resourced and supported in all three areas – mental health, police and ambulance services – so they can work together effectively when necessary.
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