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Failure of private property based capitalism ?

This topic contains 270 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Critic Critic 1 minute ago.

Discussions Politics Failure of private property based capitalism ?

Viewing 10 posts - 221 through 230 (of 271 total)
  • #1701622
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    Yes critic  – for being a successful family man you must keep  producing  profits, surpluses or investment  savings beyond  what  you need  for  yourself for  “fuel” to keep  going –

    to nourish  your  family and  especially  your  “new people” or  children at least as  long as they ore not  capable starting to produce their  own profits  for prosperous  survival.

    Only a  cripple  or  an incompetent or irresponsible  hedonist is  unable or deliberately  unwilling to do this  –  and becomes  more or less dependent on the  profits, surpluses or  savings  of  others.

    Are not  demands for  higher  wages  or lower  electricity  costs proof of the basic need or  desire  for more  profits, critic ?

    Communism is  economically and democratically (politically) less  effective and  productive  than  private  property  based  capitalism, because  it reduces and eliminates  private initiative, enterprise and  responsibility and does not  see profitability as a  priority need  without  which  the communist  state  itself  cannot  survive.

    (Feeling  justified)  to help oneself  to free electricity is a perfect  example  of the predominant mentality developing  under  genuine  communism,  and communist  reality (which  cannot  survive  without  profitability from  somewhere).

    #1701637
    Profile photo of CriticCritic
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    Critic

    Jens.. A Family is not a business although there are some folk that would sell their children out and their parents teeth… all without the genuine consent of the victims.

    Are not demands for higher wages or lower electricity costs proof of the basic need or desire for more profits, critic ?

    You compare chalk to cheese jens… a demand or higher wages is usually the result of higher costs so like any business- if costs go up so do prices. Any real businessperson would understand that… a good example is when the government wants to put the price of fuel up …every business puts their prices up to cover the increased costs.
    Workers are an essential element of most businesses so it stands to reason that if their outgoings are getting higher they need to compensate like any other businessperson.

    On the other hand if you have invested in electricity and those investments are being milked as the result of the actions of a criminal party, gang or group of people that came together for criminal purposes (like the laundering of interests in property)… then of course you have every right to insist upon only paying for the maintenance and improvements to your investments instead of supporting a variety of unlawful parasites.

    “Insisting upon lower electricity costs” is not (as you state) proof of need or desire for higher profits- if one has an interest in the property it can be (as explained) simply a call to eliminate corruption or choosing to not support organised crime of the nature you choose to support.

    Communism is economically and democratically (politically) less effective and productive than private property based capitalism, because it reduces and eliminates private initiative, enterprise and responsibility and does not see profitability as a priority need without which the communist state itself cannot survive.

    We are not discussing your motherland Russia jens you are living in NZ and we have never been a communist nation (that I can recall)
    That we have become a capitalist nation is simply the outcome of empowering criminal groups to ignore the laws and do whatever in hell it is that they choose to do- like ripping others off (nothing new there)

    (Feeling justified) to help oneself to free electricity is a perfect example of the predominant mentality developing under genuine communism, and communist reality (which cannot survive without profitability from somewhere).

    The repossession of stolen property under claim of right is justification to “Help oneself to electricity”, PROPERTY that they have already paid for jens. Only a frigging idiot would see that as helping oneself to free electricity or imply a communist link to property law in NZ.

    I understand that your motherland (Russia) has influenced your thinking jens but in NZ owners or investors in property have rights enshrined in law, of course there are responsibilities as well like maintenance and improvements but the desire for profits is a separate issue which sometimes simply feeds greed and always produces inflation.

    Yep 🙂

    The repossession of stolen property (electricity)- is

    really easy under “claim of right”.
    First turn off the power at the mains switch then bridge or join the two

    heavy red wires running into the meter part…

    repo jobby 20

    #1701689
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    Critic – I was born in the  republic of Estonia  between WW1 andWW2, and was a  resident in the  Soviet Socialist Republic of Estonia for just 1  year, and have now  been a “new” New Zealand citizen, taxpayer and personal and  national wealth  creator  and owner  for  69 years,  did  most of my advanced studies here – and do not remember  much of  the  Russian language learnt  for 1 year at school.

    Yes critic – the  fact that a  family is not a  business  proves that profitability is not  just a  business – but a  universal priority need for  sustainable  survival.

    Just imagine  yourself as a  hunter and  gatherer with a  family –  and  miserable hunting and  gathering seasons every  now and then, then –

    what else (apart from perhaps planning to steal or  rob  from your  neighbor?) – than  squeezing  out and saving some  surplus or profits for  being  prepared to face  the possible  lean  seasons – or  perhaps  for  trading  with your  neighbors for preventing  any  specific  shortages  which could be disastrous.

    This basic  survival  reality is universal  – dictated  by the  laws of  nature and  regardless  how  wealthy or  poor we are.

    Total evasion of it  results in total poverty by all eventually, and evasion  by only part of the   population  leads to socio-economic division into Haves and Have-Nots.

    #1701721
    Profile photo of CriticCritic
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    Critic

    What a long winded way to say very little that makes accurate sense jens..

    At the end of the day it matters little about what you own, save or invest in if there is no peaceful method of defending your interests in that property.

    Hence the Culture of the “Laws”

    An essential element of that CULTURE is “Law Enforcement” which includes…

    The repossession of stolen property (electricity)- is

    really easy under “claim of right”.
    First turn off the power at the mains switch then bridge or join the two

    heavy red wires running into the meter part…

    repo jobby 20

    #1701730
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    That’s right, critic, law and order  is needed  to protect private and even communist property from  those helping themselves  according to their own  personal views and  rules of  maintaining and restoring justice,  by  violating the  established rules for that  –

    because of  disagreeing  with some  democratically approved  mandates to the  democratically  appointed – elected –  stewards.

    Just think about that  hard, critic – and  also about the  consequences if  some of  your  less informed  followers  make a mistake and harm themselves in following  your  advice on  their entitlement  of  “free” electricity ?

    P.S.   Yes, critic –  law  enforcement in the  legally  approved  way!

     

    • This reply was modified 6 days, 22 hours ago by Profile photo of jens jens.
    #1701750
    Profile photo of CriticCritic
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    Critic

    Jens .. You appear to have a very twisted view of the laws possibly because you only read into things, that which you choose to see if you actually read legislation at all.
    I mean there is no need for you to read the laws if you know it all eh jens

    That’s right, critic, law and order is needed to protect private and even communist property from those helping themselves according to their own personal views and rules of maintaining and restoring justice, by violating the established rules for that –

    I am not sure what you intended by that paragraph but the wording of legislation is usually pretty clear so that it doesn’t become the result of ones “own personal view
    Who other than the Crown Law Office or government have violated the established rules for maintaining or or restoring justice in connection to rights associated with property such as electricity jens?
    Have they not simply proven that those serving in positions of trust can be ignorant of the laws or not be bound by the laws?

    because of disagreeing with some democratically approved mandates to the democratically appointed – elected – stewards.

    Again Jens you seem to confuse “Hobson’s Choice” with Democracy and or the Laws.
    The rules are rather simple jens… If an action is illegal or wrong in law it matters little if it is “democratically approved” as I have pointed out to you before… any contract needs to be “Legal of Intent”.

    Just think about that hard, critic – and also about the consequences if some of your less informed followers make a mistake and harm themselves in following your advice on their entitlement of “free” electricity ?

    Jens … the first part of my advice is to “TURN THE POWER OFF AT THE MAINS” what is it that you believe can go wrong thereafter? or are you using your lack of knowledge about electrical circuits the same as you use your lack of knowledge about the laws?

    My bet is that the thieving (political) parties you supported would be annoyed with my advice about the repossession of stolen property but surely they could afford to have somebody with a little better knowledge of the laws than you to defend their position on this open forum (if there was a legitimate defense) but they just lay low and say nothing…

    While I boldly recommend …. with a smile 🙂

    The repossession of stolen property (electricity)- is

    really easy under “claim of right”.
    First turn off the power at the mains switch then bridge or join the two

    heavy red wires running into the meter part…

    repo jobby 20

    #1701779
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    Sorry, critic, but to my knowledge there is  no law against  “corporatizing ” public  assets  by the strewards  elected to do so –  nor to sell them for a  price into  the public  treasury.

    paulinem –  don’t let these  distractions from the  subject matter by critic  deny  you the opportunity  to  explain your  version of why savings are  useful to  the  banks  (or to  anyone), and  why  you apparently (?) think, that   credit  creation should  be a govt. monopoly  ?

    #1701791
    Profile photo of paulinempaulinem
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    Member since: July 8, 2006
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    paulinem

    Credit creation Jens should ALWAYS only belong to the Government and NOT to private organizations such as banks.  Credit creation has a major affect on  the economy, re prices of NZ houses is in Auckland where many are asking over a million for .

    In the great depression it was the creation of credit ( Keynesian economy ) by the labour govt  via the reserve bank and giving it to families ie family benefit ) that got the economy going  re from   the horrific  affects of the economic 1929 depression on the NZ economy .  It was the creation of credit by govt that assisted to house families via state houses. It was the creation of credit by govt that assured NZ was  economically able to provide and pay for military assistance to Great Britan re WW Two. In the 1950s/60s as I grew into adulthood  NZ was economically stable and basically had a even balanced economic society NO BODY lived in cars back then  employment was plentiful and well paid.  There was a joke back then that  the number of unemployed in this country could be counted by  the fingers. Housing boomed as you could capitalize on your Family benifit for a deposit on a home Then State Advances would give you if you were eligible a cheap low interest loan to pay your  home  off….. re Wainuomata( nappy valley )

    Any problems we had back then until 1984 under Keynesian were mostly caused by a continual election of a undemocratic MINORITY Govt  ….ie from FPP election system.

    Come 1984  Roger Douglas  changed to  Liberal/privatizing  economy  readily assisted by  Bob Jones  Micheal Fay and  ? Richrite  These three took the NZ economy to the cleaners and made a fortune from the NZ economy  by taking  advantage of a sick arrogant old man ( Muldoon) pride.

    Whats the economy like now with our neo liberal society …. desperate families living in cars or maraes or assisted into  motels as rents are  ridiculously high.  Electricity has been privatized and many families can not afford to heat their homes as electricity prices are too high. travel costs are prohibitive which familes need to use get to work.

    Today the liberal economy has HANDED over to banks to create  credit  this in affect has handed over the economy  from people controlled government to private individuals or corporations many overseas owned such as the ANZ BNZ etc  This in  effect has handed the wealth of the country to a minority of 5%  while the real workers get little reward. It has pushed the price of homes to unreachable costs for the average NZer. As banks dont have to worry about been responsible  they dont have to worry about loosing their comfortable income and jobs every three years as parliamentarians  do. Banks can be a law to themselves and yes Halycon a depression  like 1929 could happen again. Which small banks that cannot create their own credit like the PSIS  would be in danger as would their funds.    BUT not banks like ANZ BNZ Westpac etc  they simply can create their own finances to get them out of difficulty.

    #1701792
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    Critic

    Sorry, critic, but to my knowledge there is no law against “corporatizing ” public assets by the strewards elected to do so

    Jens It really doesn’t matter what laws you lack an understanding of… The great thing about the culture is that it is the clear wording that matters. My guess is that there has always been folk like you that spin and spin and spin but don’t know when to stop spinning. I have indicated to you more than once that you are “bouncing off the walls” which is what happens when you can’t keep your balance.
    The thing you need to appreciate is that we probably have more laws in NZ than any other nation.
    We have laws that describe theft and money laundering which have been pointed out to you on many occasions yet it seems you are unable to digest things for long.
    If you pinch a carton of pink toilet paper you are guilty of theft even if there is not a specific law covering the theft of pink toilet paper. Its very simple to understand put like that isn’t it?

    When the People invest in infrastructure jens and a GANG or PARTIES steal that property it is theft.
    Those parties cannot be mandated through the election process to perform acts that are wrong in law or deemed by legislation to be a criminal act jens.

    There is legislation stated as being binding upon the crown which describes crimes of deceit such as money laundering (crimes act 1961 section 243) which should have sufficed especially because of the way the term “without limitations” is used
    The wording is clear …. further

    Parties are not elected-
    To be in business
    To own property held under the stewardship of ministries
    To ignore preexisting legislation defining boundaries

    We have discussed this many times but you have yet to show me proof of legislation which would empower servants to actions outside of or above the law or steal property as fiduciaries off the beneficiaries.

    In short jens you are full of wind (but we already knew that didn’t we) 🙂

    Back on track … to resolve the problems caused by the criminal actions of parties to which you gave material support for those criminal activities we need to start the LEGAL ball rolling …. because it is about the Law rather than numbers (like the elections)we can get the ball rolling with a minority rather easily because we only need to get the ball rolling eh jens 🙂

    Democracy provides for freedom of choice jens does it not?

    Choice Ball play… 🙂

    The repossession of stolen property (electricity)- is

    really easy under “claim of right”.
    First turn off the power at the mains switch then bridge or join the two

    heavy red wires running into the meter part…

    repo jobby 20

    #1701804
    Profile photo of paulinempaulinem
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    Member since: July 8, 2006
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    paulinem

    Re Banks allowed to create credit vs Govt only…in the days of Keynesian economy Jens Mr and Miss/Mrs Average did save money…in fact they were openly encouraged to…When I started at the POSB …it was made very clear to me I “should’ put money into the Southland Building Society ..every pay day .. all the young ones did  we were too intimidated not to 🙂 Thankfully I did this gave my husband and I the deposit we needed  to buy our first  home plus able to  borrow money  from the SBS for a mortgage of a horrifying $12,000  ( we were warned that borrowing such a large amount we could default and go a bankrupt)  🙂 :).

    As a teller taking the money in etc and paying the family benefit to the mums  ( they use to do this via a booklet with dates on etc each month on benefit day we took a card out of the book to pay them …the mums use to put some of this money into their POSB acc to save for Christmas Birthdays etc etc..

    Today the young ones etc are given credit cards to spend on what previously mum and dads etc saved for ..yeap all money on  computer created credit to the bank !!

    The last govt which National party and supporters skite left a healthy economic situation do not talk about the fact that Bill English BORROWED a BILLION from overseas banks ( yeap Jens this money was  ALL CREATED FINANCE  by the overseas banks )  for the economy to pay for the Saudi Arabia sheep etc deal ….  Yeap we as a country OWE our SOUL to overseas banks owners whom can pressure us to do what ever they want !!!!

    Under Keynesian when the Govt only created credit ie NOT  borrowing what we needed from overseas e banks We  therefore owed overseas a very minimal amount as the Govt mostly created credit for what they believed was necessary to pay for ! Yes Jens this creation of credit needs to be done responsibly ie Zimbarbwe ..actually mostly the NZ Govts did act responsibly.

    Now because under Keynesian  as a Govt we didnt borrow overseas much …it meant getting overseas money to purchase products was not easy as we didnt have a lot of overseas funds to squander. Where as under English  (borrowing billion overseas) we can buy  overseas what ever we like as NZ has plenty of overseas funds to waste on products we dont really need!!

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