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Failure of private property based capitalism ?

This topic contains 267 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of jens jens 54 minutes ago.

Discussions Politics Failure of private property based capitalism ?

Viewing 10 posts - 161 through 170 (of 268 total)
  • #1699694
    Profile photo of paulinempaulinem
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    paulinem

    No Jens you are disillusion in your dream …your system only favours the elite few in this country. Thankfully instead there is a move to change the economy from liberal to more state organized economy like Keynesian then we would see a resemblance of economic fairness in the community, and above all no longer would the Australian  banks  be  in control of the economy especially with printing money. Instead this would be with the people of NZs representatives our Government via the reserve bank !!

    #1699754
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    Paulinem – which dream is more likely to end in disillusion –

    1. –  a return to Keynesian  credit  creation   which is not  debt free and  commits the  country  to debt and interest (re)payments –

    unless  you  are  serious  about  printing debt free money which means  intensified  inflation  benefiting most  those  capitalists  who own tangible  assets, or owe money for them ?

    Lower and stable income receivers  will  be  hurt  most, because cost of living adjustments usually   take up some time  to catch up with serious. inflation.

    2. –   Or the novelty and  partial  reality already,  of  continuing and intensifying   our NZ Super Fund and KiwiSaver savings, which not only  build up personal and  national (i.e. also social) wealth  ownership  reserves  for   our  retirement  years, but  also contribute  to construction and jobs  creating potential  ?

    #1699772
    Profile photo of CriticCritic
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    Member since: June 6, 2011
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    Critic

    And if you say it with flowers ….. It Sounds about as safe as auckland ratepayers investments in infrastructure that were formerly held under the stewardship of their elected council.

    Yes jens although folk had their name carved on the toilet door (as ratepayers) they (the fiduciary/council) laundered (concealed and transferred those investments and interests in) those investment over to businesses which they scripted into being for that purpose (probably with the help of the CROWN LAW OFFICE) and of course the council which was a fiduciary is now the owner …. so investments sound really secure jens and you voted for that class of security… eh jens.

    Anyway you just keep on pumping that crap out while ignoring reality – we don’t mind if you lick the occasional window either .,..jens

    However “Rule of law” is the only possible facilitator for potential stability and security for investments which is obviously not present in nz as the result of this post coup capitalist regime.

    Having criminals at the helm really doesn’t help

    Look at the class of person that you fickle voters empower through the election process … If they are not taking or giving bribes they are screwing somebody else …. might be ok for you carpetbaggers but my ancestors would be turning over in their graves

    <><><><><><>><><>><><>><>><>

    You will just come back though singing that old song…. “despite the criminal activity you should save your money (compulsory) with theivescorp it is so secure that it defies perceivable proof”
    🙂

    #1699773
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    Critic  –  if you had had personal  ownership shares of electricity assets for a start, they could not have been stolen, sold  or  nationalized  without your approval or adequate  compensation for them  under private property based  capitalism.

    As you  did not  own any personal share certificate of those electricity assets  under public  ownership,  the only legal rights and  power you  have  over  these  assets is through a political vote on stewardship.

    I don’t think  you would get  anywhere  by  trying to take a freely and legally elected  government to  court on their  management  of  public assets  entrusted to them.

    You would have to elect a different   government to address the injustice you imagine.

    I believe the  “crap” of  private property based capitalism  will  survive your  “superior  ….?” ,  i.e. insights.

     

    #1699781
    Profile photo of CriticCritic
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    Critic

    Critic – if you had had personal ownership shares of electricity assets for a start, they could not have been stolen, sold or nationalized without your approval or adequate compensation for them under private property based capitalism.

    Trying to confuse the real issues by throwing the imaginary business model into play when I have already pointed out the model for electricity which you know to have been in place are you jens.

    Again …your name printed on a piece of paper provides no security at all you are not making sense in the face of reality jens.

    As an example your name is on the title to an auckland property and you are a ratepayer …. prior to the capitalist criminal coup that extended to regional investments in infrastructure your rates demand included references to which loans your rates were assisting to pay off. For many generations these investments were held under the stewardship of the council- “THE COUNCIL WAS A FIDUCIARY” but now it is an “OWNER” .

    How much did your capitalists mates pay you in the way of “adequate compensation” for your interest in the catchment, treatment and distribution of water jens when they concealed and transferred your interests as a ratepayer/property owner in the region over to watercare in which the ratepayers have no legal interest and which is now wholly owned by the Auckland council. We are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars of investments here jens so don’t be shy how much did your capitalist mates pay you and were you offered the opportunity to retain your interests as a registered property owner BECAUSE YOU INVESTED IN INFRASTRUCTURE NOT A BUSINESS.

    Currently the script say you aint got an interest jens. Do youwant me to fix your water so that you don’t have to provide financial support for organised crime?

    As you did not own any personal share certificate of those electricity assets under public ownership, the only legal rights and power you have over these assets is through a political vote on stewardship

    Give me a clear reference to the legislation that would support your convoluted nonsense or provide links as I have done to any references that relate to the criminal activities you supported.

    I don’t think you would get anywhere by trying to take a freely and legally elected government to court on their management of public assets entrusted to them.

    Who would be silly enough to suggest it jens… but anyway the assets were not actually entrusted to the elected representatives it was the management of the ministries which were the stewards of the assets which was entrusted surely

    You would have to elect a different government to address the injustice you imagine.

    Or keep things uncomplicated and help oneself efficiently if (as expressed) my only interest is in getting the property back

    The repossession of stolen property (electricity)- is really easy under “claim of right”.
    First turn off the power at the mains switch then bridge or join the two heavy red wires running into the meter part…

    repo jobby 11

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    #1699837
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    Critic –  by the time I became an Auckland  rates payer in the  middle 1950-s I had nothing  contributed to the  electricity and water delivery  assets construction, I accepted and paid for them  happily and  gratefully  (for our water  on my birth island Saaremaa in Estonia we had  a well, most of the first  8 years of my life our  family lived  without electricity) –  with full  confidence and support for the  authorities  managing  those assets and services.

    This makes my position  clear, I accept my responsibilities as a wealth creating and maintaining  saver and investor  or practicing  capitalist, and  all of my friends and  successful young people and relatives  I know have and are  prospering  the  same way.

    If ever that  knowledge was a secret of an “Illuminati” conspiracy, I am  doing  my best  to spread that  knowledge, for  discussion and debate  for those  in doubt  about it.

    Better  stick to that  subject matter, critric, instead of trying  to derail it into  your  imaginary  “thefts” and  whatever.

    #1699844
    Profile photo of CriticCritic
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    Critic

    Na jens you are suggesting that we can build an ownership society and I am telling you that is what we had before the 1984 criminal capitalist Coup d’état. which you fully supported … not as that adopted son but as a co-conspirator … so if we are talking about an ownership sociaty

    I am telling folk to repossess that ownership because many generations of real kiwi’s (and adopted sons that were a little less thankless than you) contributed to it (not so it can be pinched by psychotic opportunists and/or your thieving mates)

    But you and they(other supporters of organised crime) will have more respect for Rule of Law when you/they lose shirts as the result of the failure of criminal capitalism and of course the trickle down effects of unbridling that power for real EH jens – with a smile of course 🙂

    Yep even those poor buggers living in cars or under bridges have the same interests as me in electricity jens that’s what I call an ownership family eh bro

    So

    The repossession of stolen property (electricity)- is really easy under “claim of right”.
    First turn off the power at the mains switch then bridge or join the two heavy red wires running into the meter part…

    repo jobby 12

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    #1699860
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    Yes critic – when I arrived here,  New Zealand  actually  identified  itself proudly as a property owning democracy – and aspired  to  achieve property ownership  (potential) for all  through  subsidized  state  housing, family benefit  capitalization and  low interest housing  loans to poor, low income  people –  but  –  lo and behold  –  while the people seemed  to become more prosperous, the  country  ran actually  deeper  into  debt because it failed to raise its capital savings,  investments and debts  repaying rates  to adequate  levels  to keep it all sustainable –

    and with the  demand for those  benefits  rising instead of diminishing – was not real poverty actually  widening  at that  time ?

    (Perhaps  most of it  deliberately by  those not  wishing  to  earn  over a certain level of income  so as  not to lose qualification for the benefits available to the poor ?)

    How many times  have  you to be reminded, that  when Muldoon “discovered” that even our  compulsory Universal Super Fund  savings were all  “invested” in  financing  pre-pension welfare  consumption,  or plain public  debt without owning any  tangible assets at all  –  and then wrote off the Super Fund and dismissed  financial  concerns with “the public  would not know a deficit if they stumbled over it” –  the inevitable  consequences of all this necessitated the “Rogernomic”  reforms to prevent more  drastic  impoverishment through practical insolvency, with no  domestic  but only more expensive foreign savings  available for  borrowing – and  fortunately, not resorting to “debt free” money printing ???

    Furthermore, how many times do you  have to be  told, that the  failure of Rogernomics  in preventing intensified socio-economic  polarization into Haves and Have-Nots can be rectified by a systematically increased universal  and permanent savings effort  with 100%  of citizen  participation to  move towards the  Property Owning  Democracy  goal  more successfully  in a better  sustainable  way  than  what  was attempted 60 years ago, before  Rogernomics ???

    You  have no grounds for  complaining at all, as apparently you manage  quite successfully  to repossess what you imagine  was  stolen  from you.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Profile photo of jens jens.
    #1699882
    Profile photo of CriticCritic
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    Critic

    Get off the grass jens. The country was never in a predicament that required criminal acts to pull us out of the crap.

    The business round-table and the banks put pressure on because they were eyeballing all those investments resultant from the contributions of previous generations.

    Those days of spinning a tall story to suit a purpose are gone jens …. a criminal act is a criminal act and the Crimes Act 1961 does not provide for a political defense for a Criminal Act … While the act itself states “this Act shall bind the Crown” so you can sit and spin all day about what you believe should justify a criminal act involving deceit but the law is the law jens and that is the rock on which to build.

    Having said that…

    The repossession of stolen property (electricity)- is really easy under “claim of right”.
    First turn off the power at the mains switch then bridge or join the two heavy red wires running into the meter part…

    repo jobby 14

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    #1699903
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    So then  –   on behalf of those that  agree with you in seeing  the privatization of state assets as  theft,  take the matter  to court ,  critic.

    Or  relax in the  knowledge that there  is no trouble in repossessing  the  electricity assets the way you are informing us.

    But e.g. there might  be real  trouble  in the  anti private property ownership move  to repossess  privatized  state housing  without  compensation, because the “silent majority” of us might  be really  upset and opposed  to that even if they  don’t care about the unnoticeable  crumbs  which you manage to repossess for  yourself  without  compensation  to anyone.

    So – what are  you going to do now that  you are  clarified about your  situation, critic ?

     

     

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