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Failure of private property based capitalism ?

This topic contains 298 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of jens jens 5 days, 5 hours ago.

Discussions Politics Failure of private property based capitalism ?

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  • #1698356
    Profile photo of CriticCritic
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    Critic

    Hi- halcyon
    One of those catch 22 situations facilitated by the “UNNATURAL” increase in population which is being forced upon us.

    I would be more interested in addressing that “unnatural increase in population” which is causing a housing shortage and all these other problems.

    I can fully understand that the international rich folk are able to “cream it” on the Capital gains facilitated by the “ENGINEERED” Housing shortage but I reckon a considerable capital gains tax would help fund the infrastructure required to support the results of the rich folks “gold rush” stupidity.

    It would be a good start if there was a minimum IQ requirement for all politicians (instead of a charismatic personality) and some form of accountability like an oversight council that was able to ensure that “Rule of Law” was adhered to but as long as the loony rich stay in control …. the best we can hope for is to repossess our investments in infrastructure that have been alienated by a criminal element which were able to sneak in and deceive (eg gpalmer).

    Not a new problem of course….

    Mmmm

    But… we wouldn’t need a constitution if those serving in positions of trust such as lawyers like gpalmer learned how to adhere to rule of law and learned all about fiduciary relationships and duties or had somebody to clip them over the ear when they misbehave.
    🙂

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    #1698704
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    jens

    Regardless of  constitutions,  rules of law  conscientiously adhered to or negligently or criminally ignored, and endless  arguments  about   the rights and  wrongs around us  all the time –

    the  basic  fact  still prevails that  without  saving, investment and some  wealth – capital  –  ownership,  humanity  would be still living in caves.

    Therefore –  to reverse the  trend of  humanity being  split into haves and have-nots – and govt. monopoly  capitalism having too much restrictive economic power over  individual enterprise and  freedom of  action –

    would not now be  time  to acknowledge  the  advantages of  mixed capitalism with  all of  us  participating in  the  creation and ownership  of wealth, so that  poverty will be  reduced and eventually  eliminated  altogether ?

     

    #1698718
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    Regardless of constitutions, rules of law conscientiously adhered to or negligently or criminally ignored, and endless arguments about the rights and wrongs around us all the time –

    Having “no regard” for the above frameworks for stability is exactly why we get into trouble.

    A savings plan to put infrastructure into place which is required as the result of policies intended to facilitate capital gains for rich folks might well seem like a good option to those supporting the rich plundering this nation but any reasonable minded person would probably agree that a capital gains tax if implemented in a timely (intelligent) manner would have seen to it that user pays rather than the general population who were not “in it” specifically for those tax free profits or capital gains as were the rich folk who didn’t need to pay for the likes of that Penlink road previously mentioned.

    No jens people will manage fine without living in caves even the Australians have managed to “not” live in caves for at least 50 years.. where do you get the notion that there are enough caves from?

    #1698758
    Profile photo of halcyonhalcyon
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    halcyon

    I note that the Super fund could lose 50% of its capital value if the current share market fall continues.

    This raises the question of whether savings are a viable option?

    I behave therefore I am.
    (Apologies to B F Skinner and Rene Descartes)

    #1698764
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    I have been warning about that for years..

    Saving and investing isn’t the problem halcyon … the problem is gambling on a share-market in which (we all know) one can lose their shirts.

    So the problem is that there is no compulsion (such as accountability) for the fiduciary to act in a prudent manner with others savings.

    Investing in housing while the government has a policy of building on a housing shortage is good sound and prudent investing because there is no capital gains tax it could be played just like it is set up for the rich man to play
    And of course the taxpayer can pick up the tab for the extra infrastructure required.
    🙂

    logic

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    #1698768
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    jens

    Saving and investment  will  continue as long as humans survive,  because  without it  we would not have  houses  to live in.

    Even an arguably tolerable capital  gains tax (as in Australia?) will not  eliminate private saving and investment, unless it is meant to outlaw  private capitalism altogether, as is done under  Socialist  dictatorships.

    (Those still surviving increasingly  permit  some  private  capitalism)

    And  halcyon  – does not the NZ Super Fund actually benefit at times  of declining  share market  values by having cash reserves  for  buying  assets at reduced  prices,  which in the  long term  are more inflation proof than  even  compound interest earning  term deposits in the bank ?

    #1698774
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    Gambling with others money is not Prudent, responsible or even reasonable no matter how one dresses it up jens… and it has nothing to do with saving and investing

    It gives folk good cause to choose not to participate- or it would if there the democracy of a voting choice (accountability) either way turning ones back is preferable to suffering stupidity in silence.

    The difficult to avoid stupidity of trusting people that are blatantly treating folk like it is them that is stupid can’t last jens because there will be no money left in the savings plan for the sleazes to squeeze and/or nothing left to pay the unprincipled ones, their bonuses and over the friggin top rewards for unprincipled acts like gambling with folks savings.

    You should learn to differentiate between gambling and saving jens only one can be reasonably attributed to be a Prudent Act.

    envelope

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    #1698821
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    jens

    Well critic, I wholeheartedly  agree with   your contempt  for  gambling with  other people’s money  whether  borrowed or on trust  – and yes, sometimes  it might be difficult to estimate  between an inevitable normal and  acceptable  risk an a  reckless  gamble  with a chance of success well  below  50% .

    Therefore –  even though foolish, it is  generally  accepted  that  you can  gamble for  pleasure with your own savings  up to the  limit you can afford  to lose without going into debt or poverty  because of it.

    But I  have to repeat  again: Borrowing  other  people’s savings  for  useful and profitable  low risk capital  investment at a  debt  repayment rate  you are able to save  from your  current  income  is economically sound  and helps the  young and  have-nots quicker  into  prosperity  than if there  were not  savings available for  borrowing.

     

    #1698965
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    But jen…

    helps the young and have-nots quicker into prosperity than if there were not savings available for borrowing

    Tell us something we don’t know jens like superannuation funds were intended to benefit other than the superannuates which partook in the savings.

    This thread is about the failure of capitalism and “that” is a really easy subject in which two significant behavioral patterns dominate

    1…. greed and speed of greed
    2…. Lawlessness and ignorance of the laws for greedy purposes

    These two elements of human behavior are all that was required to ensure the failure of capitalism.

    Justice (actual) like “helping yourself to electricity as a lawful and democratic choice” (with claim of right) will speed up the failure of the brand of capitalism introduced to nz which was so reliant upon ignorance of the laws 🙂

    choose wisely

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    #1698998
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    jens

    Oh dear,  critic !!!

    As long as humans at our  current intelligence  level survive –

    just like planting and  harvesting  crops or  building  houses  will never stop  as a result  of crop failures and housing fiascos, so capitalism will also  never  cease despite failures through  natural  disasters or human  misbehavior.

    There is no alternative  –  TINA – to capitalism!!!

    If you cannot give an example of an alternative,  better  accept it – and start thinking  of  more  fair, effective  and “better”  ways of of applying  capitalism , i.e. “planting and harvesting”!

    True, many  a crops  harvester  gives  up after  say a serious  drought –  but  not all  of them  give up on capitalism in another  area, and  for those  physically or mentally  disabled  by the  crop  failure  there  is  better  help  available the  more capital reserves and  other  profitable investments are  owned  by  kinsfolk  and the nation and the  world .

    The  Third  Way of  Capitalism – meaning direct  participation  by all – is arguably  more  democratic  and economically  safe and fair than  the traditional  socio-economic  schism  into classes of  Haves  and Have-Nots –  and spreads the  responsibilities and risks (and potential  failures) in “harvesting” to a wider  spread of economic  units.

    Permanent contributions (savings) into a permanent NZ Super Fund accumulate retirement  wealth and NZ Super  security also  for our  current  Have-Nots,  and if you are worried  about the  honest  stewardship of that,  critic  –

    would you  not feel  more  secure if your  contributions  out  of the taxes  you  pay  would  go  to  your  own PA – Personal Account  –  within the  NZ Super Fund ?

     

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