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Evidence of the Failure of Capitalism

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This topic contains 42 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of doogie doogie 21 minutes ago.

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  • #1652252
    Profile photo of Critic
    Critic
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    Member since: June 6, 2011
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    Consider the buy products of capitalism in context to that above mentioned scientific caveat

    There is no Profit (measured in terms of current see) in cleaning up the environment (so it just doesn’t happen) hence Capitalism is failing humanity who “NEED” the Environment 2B Livable (long term) to survive

    #1652254
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    doogie
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    5% unemployed would be more like the percentage of unemployable than an orchastrated level in the belief of some

    #1652288
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    halcyon
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    Member since: May 4, 2014
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    Agree totally Doc. Consumerism is the cancer of our society. However, it is seductive, we are encouraged to work, not to provide us with what we need but to spend our hard earned money on trinkets that we could live without.

    In all reality do we need a cell phone. Yes, I know they are convenient. But could we live without them. I did for over 50 years and did not miss it. There is so much we are encouraged to buy.

    But we have choices. We do not have to get hooked in to consumerism.

    #1652310
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    TedE
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    Thanks again Critic, that’s a good point expressed in a new way (current see).
    Marilyn Waring makes it well. So how do we ensure that those behaviours we need to adapt are rewarded and those we don;t need are penalised.
    It appears as though we have a govenrment that wants to address these issues but have a bit of difficulty taking the rest of “Vocal NZ” with them.

    TedE - Papakura -

    #1652316
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    halcyon
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    Critic, you say there is no profit in cleaning up the environment.  I have been traveling around the Waikato of recent times. The farmers have spent considerable sums of money in fencing off the waterways in an attempt to improve water quality.

    I also note in the Herald that numerous beaches in Auckland are not swimmable this year. When I check on Google Maps I find there is little water flow from rural land into the waters around those beaches. So I wonder where does the contamination come from?

    #1652321
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    TedE
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    The most widespread problem in Auckland, is from overflowing sewerage reticulation during periods of heavy rain and the sewerage treatment system on the Manukau harbour. There needs to be a concerted effort to separate the stormwater from the sewerage systems in the older parts of the system. Then there needs to be a property by property assessment of downpipes being fed directly into the sewerage system and separating them. This was still being done up till the 50’s I understand. These are infrastructure problems of Auckland and many other cities which need to be addressed.
    One of the astounding things is the sewerage system that we have is based on adding 2 gallons of drinking water to half a pint of body waste and adding t to te sewerage problem. I read recently of a chap in Wellington having a hassle when he wanted to install a composting toilet in a house he was building in Wellington. We had a similar problem in Auckland when we were not permitted to install a composting WC in a house but could build it 2 metres from the building.
    Having grown up with a 4 gallon kerosene tin system which we buried in the garden astounds me that we cannot make better use of the fertility that we deem waste.

    One of the major problems is the run off from the hard surfaces that find there way into the stormwater system carrying the heavy metal by products of our transport system. This is being addressed in most of our new roading projects however we have a lot of paved areas that nave no treatment at all and discharge directly to streams.

    In answer to your question Halcyon there is no shortage of things to do but there seems to be no will to do them. It gets down to it does not enhance our GDP and therefore it ahs no value. The environment we leave for our children is certainly not as good as that which I grew up in and that troubles me. Standard of living is about how we live and whether we l=can live healthy fulfilled lives without making the lives of others worse.

    Sorry about that, my thoughts are running away on me again. I’ll wipe my chin now.

    TedE - Papakura -

    #1652340
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    jens
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    Yes – as there  might not be any direct profit in cleaning up the environment, the capital  saved  at  the  cost of  giving  up  its  investment  somewhere else – or it’s hand-to-mouth  consumption  value – needs to be  directed  towards  the desired cleaning  up  job.

    Thus – how  can you talk about the  failure of  capitalism, when it all  comes  down to  our  ways of  utilizing it?

    So, TedE  –  is not  our sewerage  (and all)  construction  and  maintenance  just a matter  of  capital  creation  and  investment, with  desired but unprofitable  investment  sustainable only by extra  capital creation  for that  purpose (through the  “austerity” of  saving)  or  from  the  profits of other  capital  investments.

    As nothing  substantial can be done without  capitalism, our  failures or  fortunes  on the material level  depend entirely  on  our  management of capitalism.

    So – how  can we improve  that  for better  results ?

    #1652341
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    jens
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    Yes – as there  might not be any direct profit in cleaning up the environment, the capital  saved  at  the  cost of  giving  up  its  investment  somewhere else – or it’s hand-to-mouth  consumption  value – needs to be  directed  towards  the desired cleaning  up  job.

    Thus – how  can you talk about the  failure of  capitalism, when it all  comes  down to  our  ways of  utilizing it?

    So, TedE  –  is not  our sewerage  (and all)  construction  and  maintenance  just a matter  of  capital  creation  and  investment, with  desired but unprofitable  investment  sustainable only by extra  capital creation  for that  purpose (through the  “austerity” of  saving),  or  from  the  profits of other  capital  investments ?

    As nothing  substantial can be done without  capitalism, our  failures or  fortunes  on the material level  depend entirely  on  our  management of capitalism.

    So – how  can we improve  that  for better  results ?

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by Profile photo of jens jens.
    #1652375
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    TedE
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    Our present interpretation of “Capitalism” does not recognise environmetal costs from our extractive industries.
    We know enough to say that there is a cost of long term harm from heavy metal contamination and the release of undesirable gases so we should either impose a cost on them or not allow them to be discharged into the commons. The tailings from mining need to be controlled for many hundreds of years and that cost for the most part falls on those living in the area after the process has wound up and moved on.
    There’s a very apt quote of internalising profits and externalising costs and we seem to have adopted that from the US model.

    TedE - Papakura -

    #1652433
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    halcyon
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    TedE, Thank you for your comments about the waste water / sewage problem in Auckland. I hope the Jafas will think before they throw stones and their rural neighbours in future. You know, glass house stuff.  😀

    I also agree with you about our powers to be’s reluctance to use composting toilets. The Chinese used it for years with out much in the way of problems They used to grow the best cotton in the world. Then they were sold the idea of chemical fertilizer and the quality of their cotton dropped remarkably. Actually, composting toilets would solve most of the problems around the Auckland beaches. Even if they only used them in stand-alone houses. It is a wonder that the Green Party have not forwarded this option. (Maybe because they are not really green).

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by Profile photo of halcyon halcyon. Reason: Damn autospell
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