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Doughnut Economics

This topic contains 52 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of TedE TedE 6 days, 15 hours ago.

Discussions Politics Today Doughnut Economics

Viewing 10 posts - 41 through 50 (of 53 total)
  • #1709896
    Profile photo of halcyonhalcyon
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    Member since: May 4, 2014
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    halcyon

    Actually jens, paulinem makes a good point in her last post. Yeah, I know she is repeating one she made earlier.

    There would be considerable costs in privatising the National superannuating fund and paying it into individual accounts. It is more economic for that money to remain in a Government account as at present. With the current trend towards socialism I think your third way is now outdated. It may have been an option 10 years ago but not now.

    There is nothing more valuable than truth

    #1709914
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    Member since: May 3, 2006
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    jens

    halcyon – having KiwiSavings  invested  with the NZ Super  Fund  does not privatize our  NZ Super nor alter  the  Fund’s  function  to help keeping  our universal NZ Super  sustainable from age  65.

    Did you not  take  notice that 3 million  $1000.- KiwiSaver  kick-starts would  be only $3 billion  within the currently over  $40 billion   wealth  of the NZ Super Fund – with the same benefit for all and owned  equally  by all of us and for  exactly the same  purpose  as what the  NZ Super Fund stands for.

    Are you a Socialist, halcyon, with your opposition  of  some private  capital sharing in the security and benefits of our  collective NZ Super Fund,  potentially  helpful  towards 1st home ownership ?

    Or are  you among the libertarians  wanting to do away with the NZ Super Fund altogether ?

    Are not all opponents of  mixed economy private  ownership based democracy Socialists?

    If you are not a Socialist, halcyon, then  tell us please  why do you think the idea of a 100% property owning  democracy  is  out-dated, and what is  your idea of  overcoming poverty and intensified socio-economic  polarization  into haves and have-nots ?

    #1716253
    Profile photo of TedETedE
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    Member since: May 6, 2006
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    TedE

    To return to Kate Raworth’s thesis; which I believe is what we should be aiming for; It is a matter of how to achieve her goals:
    Her idea is that our present economic system is predicated on GDP and we seem to have that as a basis for our thinking and planning.
    Kate is putting forward the idea that it is a misconception. In her book she (like Ha Joon Chang and Thomas Picketty) look at the historic development of economic thinking and it’s shortcomings.
    Her thesis is based on the concept of the World as a biosphere (earthship) and that what we have on board is all. We can only consume so much and produce so much waste before we upset the balance of the biosphere that has been fairly stable for the past 10,000 years (the holocene period) and that once we degrade it we will then accelerate the species decline that we see around us. Since the 1800 our consumption of fossil fuels and the burgeoning of the human species has disrupted the balances that pertained for the prior 8000years.
    Her illustration uses the “doughnut” analogy as an illustration of the sweet spot that we have inhabited and the ideals that we should be able to bring all humans within that sweet spot and reduce the overshoot(meaning the degradation of the biosphere) that will enable the long term survival of the mammalian species.

    It seems to me that we don’t take the situation seriously enough and this has been highlighted by the Swedish girl Greta Thunberg who I believe has the right idea. We need to start acting as though this were an emergency (which i believe it is0 and try to prioritize our actions to achieve the changes needed to bring about change.

    TedE - Papakura -

    #1716268
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    Well, Ted E – what  practical policies have been  proposed  towards  achieving the less polluting and consuming  culture advocated by the Swedish girl and Kate Raworth’s Doughnut Economy?

    Did you manage to pick out  any suggestions ?

    The only policies I can imagine  towards moving really effectively in those  directions is in achieving negative population growth and  a  more  prudent  and austere life-style  to  pollute less  –  and accumulate the  capital needed  for  cleaner productivity as e.g.  more solar power  investment ?

    Or what  better  can you, TedE – or any  grownup  –  suggest  for examination and discussion ?

     

     

     

    #1716273
    Profile photo of TedETedE
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    TedE

    I think that Great Thunberg has given us the means and example as to how to do this.
    Kate Raworths ideas seem to be the ideal if we can achieve that sort of configuration and live within the planetary boundaries is possibly where we need to be.
    However the problem is how to get there!
    If we accepted that as the goal then we are on the way!
    The Paris agreement is an international agreement of what we need to achieve tog et there!
    Implementation of that agreement is needed now!

    Therefore Greta Thunberg’s stance to get the politicians to implement policies to achieve those goals 9signed up to in the Paris agreement) is what we must strive for at the same time as reducing our individual footprints. Come the next election we must ensure that politicians are on the track to achieve the goals that our present Govt aims to set.

    TedE - Papakura -

    #1716365
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    But TedE – all that  still does not give  us the  first unmistakable  step in the  direction  articulated  by the Swedish girl. (?)

    For that, perhaps we  have to  turn to  what American politician Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez has just  put on the political agenda there,  so even if you are too cautious  to reveal and discuss your  personal  stand on that – there  are bound to be  more  courageous  people prepared to discuss the  issue  with an open mind.

    #1716366
    Profile photo of TedETedE
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    TedE

    Jens, I”m not intelligent enough to be able to say what the first step should be.
    That is over to our leaders to enact the goals and the steps to achieve the goals set by the Paris Accord and signed by most of the countries. That is what our Government has undertaken to do and what I want to hold them to.

    What i do know is i must reduce my carbon footprint as an individual and strive to continue improving my own performance while encouraging others to understand that we can make the world a better place.purchase anything that is going to waste but that is going to be able to be reused in the next stage of the cycle of life.

    I think that Kate Rowath’s explanation of the circular economy where we recycle and reuse and reduce our waste. These are the first steps that I need to take in that direction. I should endeavour not to preach to others but persuade them to a similar course through example, especially to our grandchildren.

    In case anyone reads this doesn’t know about Kate Rowath here”s a link:

    TedE - Papakura -

    #1716377
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    jens

    Very good, TedE -I have practiced that  all my life  – prudently walked and  bi- and re- cycled as much as possible and trying to  be  modest and sometimes even skimpy and always within my means – and as a result prospered enough  for a  relaxed retirement.

    It is  within my means   now to  contemplate  solar panels and   electric  car ownership.

    So, TedE — would that recipe  not be  good for all humanity, and could not a govt.   help towards participation  in it  by all through  introducing a  universal personal wealth  ownership creative  component  into the  taxation system ?

    #1717405
    Profile photo of TedETedE
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    TedE

    Yes Jen’s that is a good place to start.
    Congratulations and go for it.

    TedE - Papakura -

    #1717427
    Profile photo of jensjens
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    Member since: May 3, 2006
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    jens

    Thanks  TedE   – join me in trying to  get other  Grownups  also  positive about it.

    Better even if you  take the  lead or find a leader for it, because  I might  have offended  enough individuals  to  be  more of a  liability  than an asset  for the  cause.

    Cheers for  all!!!

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