- #1734159Hero42 October 7, 2019 at 3:21 pm
Let’s keep the Climate Change discussions to this thread as the majority accept that is happening and for those few remaining people who aren’t sure we can discuss it at length here.
Cheers#1734160Hero42 October 7, 2019 at 3:27 pm
Carrying on from the “Our say on what’s happening today” thread here is the post on water vapour to show where Professor Geoffrey Duffy has got it wrong when he claims “Water vapour is the most important greenhouse gas. This is part of the difficulty with the public and the media in understanding that 95% of greenhouse gases are water vapour.”
When skeptics use this argument, they are trying to imply that an increase in CO2 isn’t a major problem. If CO2 isn’t as powerful as water vapor, which there’s already a lot of, adding a little more CO2 couldn’t be that bad, right? What this argument misses is the fact that water vapor creates what scientists call a ‘positive feedback loop’ in the atmosphere — making any temperature changes larger than they would be otherwise.
How does this work? The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere exists in direct relation to the temperature. If you increase the temperature, more water evaporates and becomes vapor, and vice versa. So when something else causes a temperature increase (such as extra CO2 from fossil fuels), more water evaporates. Then, since water vapor is a greenhouse gas, this additional water vapor causes the temperature to go up even further—a positive feedback.
How much does water vapor amplify CO2 warming? Studies show that water vapor feedback roughly doubles the amount of warming caused by CO2. So if there is a 1°C change caused by CO2, the water vapor will cause the temperature to go up another 1°C. When other feedback loops are included, the total warming from a potential 1°C change caused by CO2 is, in reality, as much as 3°C.
The other factor to consider is that water is evaporated from the land and sea and falls as rain or snow all the time. Thus the amount held in the atmosphere as water vapour varies greatly in just hours and days as result of the prevailing weather in any location. So even though water vapour is the greatest greenhouse gas, it is relatively short-lived. On the other hand, CO2 is removed from the air by natural geological-scale processes and these take a long time to work. Consequently CO2 stays in our atmosphere for years and even centuries. A small additional amount has a much more long-term effect.
So skeptics are right in saying that water vapor is the dominant greenhouse gas. What they don’t mention is that the water vapor feedback loop actually makes temperature changes caused by CO2 even bigger.
If you want more scientific detail on this just ask.
Cheers 🙂#1734182gbly86290MemberMember since: December 17, 2014
Replies: 44gbly86290 October 7, 2019 at 4:48 pm
Why is the sun never mentioned or considered as a cause of “global warming” ( a term that has morphed into the present usage of “climate change”) ? And would not the on going defoestization, at present in the Amazon, but earlier in many areas of the planet, be a greater feature in affecting CO2 than the other man-made activities usually cited as the main cause? Why is God never mentioned? Seems to me He might have a greater role than considered.#1734207supergoldMemberMember since: May 9, 2009
Replies: 9176supergold October 7, 2019 at 7:17 pm
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Replies: 2017Anonymous October 8, 2019 at 10:42 am
Well done Supergold.
That’s putting the issue into perspective. 🙂#1734239Hero42 October 8, 2019 at 11:43 am
Mommabear and Supergold
Well it would put it into perspective if it was scientifically correct but as we have discussed many time before this is another one of those false posts the deniers put out.
You can read the full details here if youy want the truth:
Here is the important part:
Published reviews of the scientific literature by Mörner and Etiope (2002) and Kerrick (2001) report a range of emission of 65 to 319 million tonnes of CO2 per year.
The burning of fossil fuels and changes in land use results in the emission into the atmosphere of approximately 34 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide per year worldwide, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA).
The fossil fuels emissions numbers are about 100 times bigger than even the maximum estimated volcanic CO2 fluxes.
And that is the entire volcanic activity across the earth for a whole year not one little eruption.
Cheers 🙂#1734242Hero42 October 8, 2019 at 11:47 am
A number of points so lets look at them separately
Over the last 35 years the sun has shown a cooling trend. However global temperatures continue to increase. If the sun’s energy is decreasing while the Earth is warming, then the sun can’t be the main control of the temperature.
The solar fluctuations since 1870 have contributed a maximum of 0.1 °C to temperature changes. In recent times the biggest solar fluctuation happened around 1960. But the fastest global warming started in 1980.
Some people try to blame the sun for the current rise in temperatures by cherry picking the data. They only show data from periods when sun and climate data track together. They draw a false conclusion by ignoring the last few decades when the data shows the opposite result.
Cheers 🙂#1734243Hero42 October 8, 2019 at 11:52 am
Yes the burning of trees has caused climate change as timber is part the many types of fuel being burnt. Coal and oil are concentrated forms of timber and the amount we have burnt since the industrial revolution far exceeds what we have burnt in the amazon.
Cheers 🙂#1734246Hero42 October 8, 2019 at 11:59 am
Now that is possibly more of a question fro Mommabear who states they are Christian.
One view is that the Christian God, as stated in the bible, entrusted mankind with looking after the world he created and will be very cross with us for screwing it over.
But if as stated in the Bible he created the beautiful world we live in why would he send climate change to ruin it.
Another view is that God is using climate change to bring about the end of times, however if that is his plan then it will be ineffective as we won’t die out from climate change we will just live in a much less pleasant world.
Maybe God is annoyed with mankind and is sending a hell on earth to punish us.
But these and other theories around God are not scientifically based or measurable so unless Mommabear, as a good god fearing christian, wants to weigh in with some spiritual insight this line of thinking is probably complete.
Cheers 🙂#1734256supergoldMemberMember since: May 9, 2009
Replies: 9176supergold October 8, 2019 at 12:37 pm
The following may help to enlighten you somewhat Hero and there are even more revelations in the link at the bottom of the post. Unfortunately it may be a bit difficult for you to check out many of the claims unless you have a direct link to the Galactic Federation which, as an earthling, you probably don’t….
“The Whole Solar System is Heating Up and Changing.
It’s not just planet Earth and all your fault like they want you to believe so they can push socialism and can tax the shit out you even more, including the air you breathe.
There is ample evidence of interplanetary climate change all throughout our solar system, but it’s being deliberately hidden from you. All of the planets in our solar system are heating up and changing right now and all at the same time. It’s not coming entirely/mostly from humans in the way that you are being told.
It’s being caused by cosmic waves of energy coming through the Sun from the galactic center, because our solar system is lining up with the galactic center, which is what happens when you complete a complete galactic year cycle in the precession of the Equinoxes.
We are coming out of what is known as the Kali Yuga and aligning with the cosmic center of the galaxy. Magnetic poles can shift and can cause massive planetary changes during these times, just as they have many times in the past during the rise and falls of many ancient civilizations on Earth.
This is why you have continents whose core samples show they were at an unexplainably much different latitude in the past, and why there are massive amounts of ancient ruins under the ice of Antarctica. These pole shifts can reconfigure the Earth and all of its continental bodies physical locations, when they are drastic enough. These massive shifts also tie into the unexplainable holes in Darwin’s model (of Evolution) that are largely unexplainable to scientists, which is why they are not talked about.”
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