The necessities of life are increasing in price as food is needed to make the Bio fuels. Canterbury could grow enough maize to supply the ethanol production. There are hectares of paddocks lying fallow which could grow this crop which I saw in Iowa. There was miles of maize growing, and it is also used to feed the cattle. These paddocks in Canty.were once full of sheep. Too hard???

The sad fact of all this is that despite the good intentions of those who are pushing this biofuel as an alternative, the main reason for the Govt backing the scheme is to reduce their Kyoto Protocol liability.
Why we should martyr ourselves with self inflicted debt while the biggest polluters in the world smile at our naivity and walk away is beyond reason.

By all means produce biofuel by using surplus cropping land, but also utilise the dairy and human waste to produce methane powered electricity generation like they do around the world.
Many towns have used methane production from the sewerage works to generate both heat and power for their citizens for many years.
Indians and Chinese have had small household biodigesters in rural areas for over 200 years providing cooking gas and converting the surplus to a far better quality fertilizer than the original waste.

The waste from the ethanol production can also be recyled through the same biodigesters before finally coming out as fertilizer.

Joybel - why are those Canterbury paddocks laying fallow at present?

Have no idea, Nightowl. They used to be full of sheep once. The lifestyle block has taken over much of land between Ohoka and Rangiora. The apple fields are fewer now also. A new town is being built North of Christchurch to be called Pegasus. It will be self sufficient and probably walled with remote controlled gates. It will cater for around 5000 residents whose cars will add to the backlog of commuters working in the city. We have a perfect railway line which could do the job. Going south one passes many hectares of empty paddocks. Probably owned be the likes of Pyne Gold and Guinness.

I had a bit of a giggle imagining my car F....g along on biofuel made from human and animal waste, Nightowl.

Well yes, it is not as silly as it sounds because many cars were fitted with gas bottles once. So you could call in to the local sewage works or pig farm for a top up eh. Bacon and gas to go. LOL

Back in the 1920 there were shale oil fields in Southland which were bought out by petrol companies. they are still there but can't be exploited . Through the 1938-45 war there was talk of a sugar plant in Southland fueled by sugarbeet which today would supply anything from sugar to petrol with nothing wasted . Multi national petrol interests control the debate on earth warming and fuel supplies so what hope has NZ got of controlling its own resorces .

Post deleted at 11 Aug 2007 9:35pm by Joybel

Remember old Rob on TV saying that CNG would always be at least half the price of petrol? When I was working we had 2 Holdens running very nicely on it. People said I would never be able to tow my caravan on it, well first time I toed it over Mt Messenger I forgot to switch to petrol, no problem. Only time we ran on petrol was if we forgot to fill up. That was the only problem but you can do with a break every 2 hrs, that's about how far a tank lasted. Try to get CNG now!

Some bright spark talked our council into harnessing toe methanol from our sewerage, cost millions never produced enough to fill the pipe to the boiler. Guess how paid for that muck up. Not the idiot that though of it anyway.

An English relative was telling me of a sewage plant up north that has been producing electricity and heat for about 50 years. I dont recall him saying exactly where but possibly around the Middlesbrough area.
He was saying that as the biomass moved through the tanks in the plant it produced its own heat and gas then the final cooked and dried product was used as fertilizer/compost.
The heat (hot water?)was transported back to the local suburbs through pipes under the roads which helped keep them ice-free in winter and heated the homes. The gas was used to drive turbines that generated electricity for the local area.
He had worked at the plant on several occasions prior to moving to NZ.
In searching for more info I see that there are a number of plants in the Yorkshire/Humberside areas and a lot of work being done to increase production in the region.
One document I read was "Energy from Sewage Sludge in the Yorkshire and Humberside Region" found at http://crestdl.lboro.ac.uk/support/dissertations/2001/richardhawley.pdf.

I have seen some engineers over the years tinkering and redesigning until it has not got a hope in hell of working properly.
Probably find the "bright Spark" put his own spin on a proven design and modified it out of existence.

I have heard that the problem is that in our there are only about 3000 people plus 3 larger industrial plants. One a freezing company the other 2 cheese processing and packing plants.


When these plants wash up there are large amounts of cleaning chemicals come through all once and disrupt the bugs that break down the sewerage and make the gas. These plants helped fund the so called upgrade, so can hardly be called the problem. My argument is that these high paid consultants should have known this would have happened if they had done a proper study. So if it didn't work they should carry the can!